9 month old Georgian Grande
 
 

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9 month old Georgian Grande

This is a discussion on 9 month old Georgian Grande within the Horse Conformation Critique forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
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    04-07-2013, 01:13 PM
  #1
Yearling
9 month old Georgian Grande

Just because I am curious what others have to say, and a bit bored... Go ahead and dissect this guy and tear my barn blinders off!

His info: 9 months old (yeah, I know... Foals aren't easy... And some things may change, But give it a whirl!), about 14 something hands. Saddlebred sire, Clydesdale dam. He will be gelded as soon as we get some weather that isn't so wet.

This was his first time being asked to "set up" and still a bit of a work in progress.







... I do have a hind shot somewhere... Can't find it right now so we'll go with what I've got for now.
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    04-07-2013, 01:16 PM
  #2
Showing
Very upright shoulder and a tad over at the knee, but overall, I really like him.
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    04-07-2013, 01:24 PM
  #3
Green Broke
What are your plans for him? His shoulder is upright and he is over at the knee and tied in at the knee (in these pictures). His neck ties to his chest low. His point of shoulder is low and the humerus lays a bit flat. He is knock knee'd in front. His feet do not look like the correct trim but that is hard to tell.

Do you have photos of the sire and dam?
     
    04-07-2013, 01:38 PM
  #4
Trained
What Drafty said.

He also -may- be a little bit upright behind, but that might just be the photos. Those cannons will be lovely and short, and I love his pastern length, though they look a bit upright in one of the pics.

That shoulder is lovely and open, and I want to see him over fences when he's older [I'm a jumper lol... I want to see EVERYTHING tried over fences... those knees aren't so badly over that I would write him off for it and -if- he's tied in it's not bad] - I bet he'd have a really nice tuck. Depending on how he matures he may or may not be a bit heavy/coarse, with that breeding, but given that it was done blood over bone he should be of a fairly consistent type with his siblings if he has any, and more "sporty" in type and build.

I love that big archy neck, it might end up being a tad over-thick but hey... he's half Clydie. The big neck is the thing I love most about the Clydesdale breed! Rather a big chunky neck than a sad skinny almost-ewey neck that just won't muscle up and turn over no matter what you do

Overall I really like him, and I want him, and 14-some hand at 9 months? He's going to be huge!
     
    04-07-2013, 01:55 PM
  #5
Yearling
Elana - if he doesn't find the right buyer before then, I will be starting him in harness around 2-3yrs, then will start him undersaddle about 4 - which direction he goes will be up to him.

I think the tied in at the knee is an optical illusion, in person he definitely isn't. (Not just my opinion either) He is a tad over in the knee... I have been told not to worry too much about that until he is older as it is apparently not uncommon for draft and draft cross foals, to just wait and see when he is a bit older. (It was one of my big concerns when I first noticed it... )

The front shot is possibly an awkward stance - but the others I have he wasn't standing very square (nah, ok, he wasn't at all square OR balanced, too busy fidgeting)... So I have to live with that analysis until I can get one that proves otherwise, since the photo sure doesn't really do him any favors. (He had sort of "planted" himself here making him look more base narrow than he seems in person too)

I don't see what you mean by "flat humorous"? I see an open shoulder angle (maybe I am misundstanding what you mean though?)

His feet, according to our trimmer, are naturally self wearing (due to the footing he's been kept on) and naturally balanced... So it must be just something about the photos giving you the impression the trim is not correct. He has a lovely short toe, wide open heel and from the bottom a great looking frog with a functional hoof.

I don't actually seem to have any great conformation shots of either parent... I might have to dig some up from old files.
     
    04-07-2013, 02:17 PM
  #6
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
What Drafty said.

He also -may- be a little bit upright behind, but that might just be the photos. Those cannons will be lovely and short, and I love his pastern length, though they look a bit upright in one of the pics.

That shoulder is lovely and open, and I want to see him over fences when he's older [I'm a jumper lol... I want to see EVERYTHING tried over fences... those knees aren't so badly over that I would write him off for it and -if- he's tied in it's not bad] - I bet he'd have a really nice tuck. Depending on how he matures he may or may not be a bit heavy/coarse, with that breeding, but given that it was done blood over bone he should be of a fairly consistent type with his siblings if he has any, and more "sporty" in type and build.

I love that big archy neck, it might end up being a tad over-thick but hey... he's half Clydie. The big neck is the thing I love most about the Clydesdale breed! Rather a big chunky neck than a sad skinny almost-ewey neck that just won't muscle up and turn over no matter what you do

Overall I really like him, and I want him, and 14-some hand at 9 months? He's going to be huge!
Yes, a few experienced breeders have come to meet him and said to expect nothing less than 17hh, and more likely 18. Where THAT came from, I'm not too sure, I was honestly expecting him (as a theoretical foal) to finish between around 16hh based on his pedigree. (Just goes to show, you can't predict everything!)

No siblings for him. I gelded his sire last year, as I bought a younger stallion I think will just plain be better suited to my goals. (A bit more refined). Not that I am unhappy with this colt, but my goal is something a little bit longer lined.

He is going to be big bodied, though I have been told he will match it for bone, and not to be terribly concerned he will be too heavy for sport as he has lovely self carriage and moves lightly. (Admittedly, I haven't met many foals who move heavily... So I suppose I either have to trust their experience, or wait and see)
     
    04-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #7
Trained
Well if it helps at all I have a friend who has a REALLY heavy Percheron/Cleveland Bay/WB cross and he moves really lightly. York could be purebred Percheron just going by appearance, he's as wide as he is tall. Officially measured at 16.1 but gives the impression of being about 18hh!

FWIW, I like them big, the bigger the better... safest I've ever felt on a horse was on a 16.3hh [biggest I've ever ridden] FEI dressage horse. The big ones can move so amazingly. Orrrr they can be really coarse and flat, but Saddlebred/Clyde should float well enough. Clydies have good knee action IME and are surprisingly athletic for their size and bulk, Saddlebreds I have very little experience with except to say YUM YUM YUM. Some of them swing their hind legs out when they move, which reminds me of the movement of the Standardbred, but a good one that moves straight and correct is just... poetry in motion.

I'm used to seeing the GG being a Saddlebred/Friesian cross, but my understanding is that it's really Saddlebred/draft. Friesian is just the most popular choice of draft breed, because they have fewer "draft horse" characteristics. I don't like Friesians, but I do like GG's. Especially yours.
     
    04-07-2013, 04:03 PM
  #8
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
Well if it helps at all I have a friend who has a REALLY heavy Percheron/Cleveland Bay/WB cross and he moves really lightly. York could be purebred Percheron just going by appearance, he's as wide as he is tall. Officially measured at 16.1 but gives the impression of being about 18hh!

FWIW, I like them big, the bigger the better... safest I've ever felt on a horse was on a 16.3hh [biggest I've ever ridden] FEI dressage horse. The big ones can move so amazingly. Orrrr they can be really coarse and flat, but Saddlebred/Clyde should float well enough. Clydies have good knee action IME and are surprisingly athletic for their size and bulk, Saddlebreds I have very little experience with except to say YUM YUM YUM. Some of them swing their hind legs out when they move, which reminds me of the movement of the Standardbred, but a good one that moves straight and correct is just... poetry in motion.

I'm used to seeing the GG being a Saddlebred/Friesian cross, but my understanding is that it's really Saddlebred/draft. Friesian is just the most popular choice of draft breed, because they have fewer "draft horse" characteristics. I don't like Friesians, but I do like GG's. Especially yours.
Interesting you mention some Saddlebreds moving like Standardbreds... Waaaaaay back in most ASB Pedigrees are Standardbreds, so that makes sense. I think they are often a breed sold a little short. I love all my purebred Saddlebreds, but I also love the more substantial build of the GG.

And yes, the GG is Saddlebred/Draft, or Saddlebred/Friesian - with up to 75% Saddlebred blood, or as little as 25%. While the Friesian seems most often used, we chose the Clydesdale because of the fact, for a heavy draft, they tend to be very athletic with a way of going I find more appealing. (They don't tend to have the very upright front end present in most Friesians). I like the F1 generation of GG's but I am REALLY loving the F2 that is starting to make an appearance now. I like the Clydesdale and Shire crosses, better, on the whole... But more than a few with Friesian have certainly caught my eye.

This is the sire of our colt, with less than 30 days undersaddle. (Apparently the only set up conformation shots I have of him, handy-like, are as a gangly colt) After he was gelded he was sold, I had a lot of solid interest from dressage and pony club riders ... In the end he went to a woman who just wanted a really nice all around horse - for her own enjoyment (she doesn't show) simply because he seemed to really like her best. (I'm a bit kooky like that, they just had an immediate "click" that seemed missing from some of the others who came to look. It made me feel better about parting with a horse I really really liked)
The woman riding him in this photo said he was by far the coolest horse she had trained as far as how quick and easy he learned - and his movement. She a rides and shows hunter/jumpers (with more emphasis on jumpers) and said she if she could have, she would have taken him home because he would suit both, with flair.


This is the colt's dam, showing even the big drafts can have get up and go... (unfortunately the last time I took conformation photos of her she was about 2 or 3, right in the middle of a growth spurt... Something to do when I think about it will be getting new ones now that she is 9 and she is what she is.). She was started for harness, but just didn't seem to enjoy it (she'd do it and everything, but you could tell it was because she's good natured)... So now she is ridden instead. We just do basic flatwork and trails. She has nice movement, especially considering her size, and a fabulous temperment. When a young lady borrowed her for a riding lesson (her own horse had pulled up lame) the coach said "she is just a lovely mare, I'd like to steal her. I love her way of going and you can't beat her mind."

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    04-07-2013, 06:46 PM
  #9
Trained
Nice parents, they compliment each other beautifully :) looks like he gets his gorgeous neck from both sides. He surely has Daddy's face!

Comparing the Saddlebred and the Standardbred is like comparing a Ferrari and a BMW. In my experience at least. They're both "cars". They're both a smooth ride that handles nicely. The Ferrari just goes quicker and responds a lot more easily. Only thing wrong with the Standie as opposed to the Saddlebred, is that the Standardbred paces.
     
    04-07-2013, 08:15 PM
  #10
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony    
Nice parents, they compliment each other beautifully :) looks like he gets his gorgeous neck from both sides. He surely has Daddy's face!

Comparing the Saddlebred and the Standardbred is like comparing a Ferrari and a BMW. In my experience at least. They're both "cars". They're both a smooth ride that handles nicely. The Ferrari just goes quicker and responds a lot more easily. Only thing wrong with the Standie as opposed to the Saddlebred, is that the Standardbred paces.
Thanks. I think the colt is an improvement on both parents in many ways. Overall I got much what I was expecting from this pairing.
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