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Critique My ride...

This is a discussion on Critique My ride... within the Horse Conformation Critique forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        02-20-2012, 05:31 PM
      #11
    Banned
    You look much better to me. I like your position, you seem more relaxed and secure, particularly in the upper body. Posting looks better too, though I like tinyliny's analysis and suggestions above, for improving your posting.

    I don't know what to tell you about Cinny. He does look uncomfortable. I would not move him up to Training Level until you can get him a lot more accepting of the contact. I also would not attempt to sit his trot. He never really tracks up in the trot and appears somewhat mincing, I would be concerned that sitting would make matters worse. Whether this is a hold over from his bad Western training or somehow pain related, I can't really say.

    He is much more forward than the last vid you posted, and that's a good thing, but he really lacks rhythm.

    Judges tend not to penalize a horse that doesn't fully accept contact at Intro Level, but the expectation for Training Level is that the horse accepts contact and is on the aids - not with the face vertical necessarily, but actively moving into the contact. The head flipping/evading the bit by coming above it is penalized at either level. The best he could score on a Training Level test on the collective marks for submission would be a 4. If this is his best trot work, I'm thinking the mark collective mark for gaits couldn't be more than 5.

    I definitely see some improvements since last time, but I am not sure your horse is 100%.
         
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        02-20-2012, 05:40 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    I see a heavy handed rider too! I don't exactly see the tail swishing though, I just see him holding it up and slightly to the side. The weight of the wrap seems to be bobbing (his tail goes to the ground to the point that he can step on it when he backs up, thus the tail wrap).

    I see improvement, and I see improvement needed. I think his discomfort is me. I've also been told my saddle appears to be due for some maintenance in the form of restuffing and rebalancing. I found a Kieffer authorized place in Kansas City and I am going to work on getting it there sometime Spring/Summer. I have noticed that it throws me forward, where it didn't used to causing my pelvis to tilt backwards with my tailbone in the air, instead of sitting properly down into my seat bones. I guess I've been riding on my punanny and not really realizing it except for some recent constant lower back pain. I've ordered a Wintec Front Lift comfort pad Wintec Comfort Saddle Pad - Cushions & Wedges from SmartPak Equine from Dover to see if it helps until I can get the saddle tended to.

    I've also put myself in full training until the show. NO SODAS, period. Actually no drinks except water and occasionally milk. Fresh meat and veggies, high protein, low carb and an abdominal, leg butt workout along with cardio. I'm slimming down, and getting fit. I think that will help Cinny tremendously.

    Cinny is off for the next 3 days or so. He has his dentals/shots tomorrow and then we are doing only ground work with no bit for a couple of days afterward. He has a long history of bit shyness so I am making sure his mouth is not sore at all because I'm afraid of him associating the bit with any residual dental appointment pain and having to go back a few steps again. I think I may do yet another day of what I call "seat riding" where we go around the arena with dropped reins and I work on steering, stopping, everything from my seat only. It's something I usually make my daughter do because I don't like her yanking on him, but it appears I need to practice what I preach a bit :)

    I really appreciate everyone's views. Keep them coming, don't be afraid of being mean. Sometimes I need to be knocked down a few pegs because I get really cocky with my riding when I have no right to be.
         
        02-20-2012, 06:01 PM
      #13
    Super Moderator
    Cinny, I knew you were much involved in making your horse as comfy as possible.

    I question, however, that the feeling you get from the saddle is it being too low in front. I almost think it's the other way around; too high in front. This invariable causes a person to have a chair seat. I wouldn't say you have a total chair seat, but you do push a bit too far forward with your feet, and the having your tailbone roll backward, putting a bit too much curve in the lower back is very often the way a person posts when they are perpetually trying to "climb" a saddle that is too high in front (either due to poor fit, poor stuffing or a horse with a very uphill build or saddle set too far forward. Any of those things). IT also results in the rider coming back to the saddle with their butt too far back, banging into the cantle.

    Cinny isn't offering you a lot of impulsion to post off of, which makes it harder.
    Would you consider working him in the arena a bit and asking him to really trot out as fast and as extended as he will? I'd like to see that and see if he moves any differently. You would then also work on having him stretch down and forward, something which I know is challenging for him and his bit worries. I also know you have done this stuff before, but I would love to see how he's doing this now.

    You are inspiring me to eat well, too. I keep outgrowing my breeches!
         
        02-20-2012, 06:21 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    Cinny, I knew you were much involved in making your horse as comfy as possible.

    I question, however, that the feeling you get from the saddle is it being too low in front. I almost think it's the other way around; too high in front. This invariable causes a person to have a chair seat. I wouldn't say you have a total chair seat, but you do push a bit too far forward with your feet, and the having your tailbone roll backward, putting a bit too much curve in the lower back is very often the way a person posts when they are perpetually trying to "climb" a saddle that is too high in front (either due to poor fit, poor stuffing or a horse with a very uphill build or saddle set too far forward. Any of those things). IT also results in the rider coming back to the saddle with their butt too far back, banging into the cantle.

    Cinny isn't offering you a lot of impulsion to post off of, which makes it harder.
    Would you consider working him in the arena a bit and asking him to really trot out as fast and as extended as he will? I'd like to see that and see if he moves any differently. You would then also work on having him stretch down and forward, something which I know is challenging for him and his bit worries. I also know you have done this stuff before, but I would love to see how he's doing this now.

    You are inspiring me to eat well, too. I keep outgrowing my breeches!
    The part that makes me think that the saddle is too low in front is that I can't see to get my legs back farther without feeling like I'm falling forward. When I ride without stirrups and let myself go completely limp and relaxed with legs just hanging down, my saddle throws me onto my pubic bone very painfully. I'm constantly fighting to keep off the pubic bone.

    Part of our "getting Cinny fit" workout is 10 figure 8's in the arena where I lengthen the reins as much as I can and encourage him to reach out and extend as much as he possibly can without going into a canter. Then we do 5 more where I slowly alternate between asking him to collect, and asking him to go and try to keep my posting at the same rhythm. I try to play music that naturally matches his strides and try to post to that beat to make sure I'm keeping it the same if I can. I'll video this next time I ride him with a bridle so you can see what he's doing. When I ask to collect I slowly run my hands up the reins one side at a time with his foot falls. As each shoulder goes forward, I inch back a little on that rein. We go a few strides and then I let him gently slide the reins back through my hands. I feel like I barely inch the reins but as soon as he feels me start to inch, up goes the head.

    I have worked him off and on with a German Martingale, and he goes beautifully in it, but I don't want he or I to depend on it, and I feel like though it gives him a quick correction and release when he flips his head, it is just a meaningless fix that I shouldn't rely on instead of correcting what is causing him to do this.
         
        02-20-2012, 06:26 PM
      #15
    Super Moderator
    I'd like to see a video of those movements you describe. So hard to tell anything from a few short vids. Could you take a photo of the saddle on him, him squared on flat ground. Just to see how the saddle sits on him. For my curiosity sake.


    I used to have a Crosby dressage saddle that I loved in that it gave a good feel to the horse underneath, but man, my lady bits took a beating in that saddle. Now, my Klimke saddle doesnt do this to me.
         
        02-20-2012, 10:44 PM
      #16
    Trained
    You might be able to isolate what is causing the head tossing by trotting while up in half seat. If you don't normally ride in half seat, just stand up in your stirrups, fold at the hips and grab a little mane to stay quiet. If your horse suddenly trots around like butter with no head tossing, it's most likely the way you are posting or your hands. If you think it's your hands, go back to posting but hold either the front of your saddle or a crop in both hands to your hands stay quiet. If he's still fidgity, it's more likely where you're landing in your down-post.

    What type of bit it is?
    Cinnys Whinny likes this.
         
        02-20-2012, 11:11 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    This is the exact bit I'm using, in a 5 inch. I measured his mouth when I first bought him by putting a shoestring through his mouth and holding it taught on both ends and then marking. It measured just a little more than 4 3/4 so I figure the 5 inch would be the best bet.

    JP Korsteel Oval Mouth Copper Loose Ring Snaffle Bit | Dover Saddlery
         
        02-20-2012, 11:20 PM
      #18
    Trained
    So basically the kindest most gentle inviting bit on the planet with plenty of tongue room. Unless he's got a sharp tooth, it ain't the bit!

    Try the half seat exercise and see if he goes quiet. If so, it might be the saddle or just a matter of adjusting your downbeat of the posting. It does look like you are coming down in the back of the saddle instead of the center. Problem is he's throwing his head randomly, not every downbeat, so I doubt that's it. When my horse throws his head, he's telling me I've locked my elbows...again.
         
        02-21-2012, 04:14 PM
      #19
    Green Broke
    I just got back from Cinny's vet/dental appointment. My vet watched my full video of Cin working on Intro C, one where he was especially disobedient, and he says that Cin actually has nice movement and doesn't appear to show any lameness or back soreness that he can see. He thinks he is, however, capable of moving out a little more. What he DID see is a horse so preoccupied with what is going on in his mouth that he has trouble working or doing anything else at all. He says that all the head tossing, grinding, and not moving forward is all mouth related.

    Cin had sharp teeth, and sores in his mouth. The vet did a nice thorough job of filing down (with the new type electric file) and showed me in his mouth before and after, and the sores, etc. Nothing was infected or abscessed. My vet thinks in a couple of weeks I should see a HUGE improvement in him, if not to call him back.

    I am going to give Cin 2 or 3 days off (depending on the weather) and then bring him back in to work and see how he does. Then I'll work on more video probably next week sometime.
         
        02-21-2012, 04:28 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    That's awesome! So nice to hear and I bet he will feel happier about his mouth in a day or two. I got to watch our dental vet do teeth the other day and it was very interesting to watch. He said that Mac had ulcers in his cheeks from sharp edged teeth. Poor boy! He had not had his teeth done in something like 4 years. Yet, he never complained.
         

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