Do you see a transformation? - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 102 Old 08-06-2014, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by EnduranceLover6 View Post
He is still breaking at the poll. I think your method is fine, but the tension of your rope is too tight. Whether he is tracking up or not, the front is all wrong. You need to encourage him to reach down and OUT, not be sucked back with his nose behind the vertical. A horse can track up and still carry themselves incorrectly. Keep trying, you'll get there.

This screams tension. Here he is bracing against the rope, pulling his head UP instead of reaching DOWN. Hind legs are trailing out behind moving up and down instead of reaching forward to push himself. Dip at the withers becomes more prominent.
Attachment 493258

MUCHHHHH better. Back is lifting, hind legs reaching up, neck reaching DOWN and pushing base of neck upward (notice ewe in neck is filling up instead of becoming hollow). The only thing wrong with this picture is the rope that is restricting his head...when you watch the video, notice he is bobbing hes nose forward and back...that is him catching himself on that rope...he wants to reach down and OUT but can't because its too tight. Less tension on that rope will help...only adjust the rope tight enough to catch his head if he raises it high...let him figure it out and he will reach down on his own...I promise
Attachment 493266
I'm going to put a surscingle on him today and long make shift side reins to see if he will search for contact. This whole jumbo of collection is new to me, so we are learning together
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post #52 of 102 Old 08-15-2014, 08:11 PM
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Yes, there is a change in muscle tone. However, he needs to gain weight. He looks as if he lost weight between when you got him and now. He is a very handsome boy and would be more handsome and a lot healthier if he were at a healthy weight.
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post #53 of 102 Old 08-15-2014, 08:35 PM
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Are you trying for the old WP peanut roller look ? he needs more weight, and out of that set up
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post #54 of 102 Old 08-16-2014, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by stevenson View Post
Are you trying for the old WP peanut roller look ? he needs more weight, and out of that set up
I don't understand that comment, but obviously he needs weight.
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post #55 of 102 Old 08-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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nose to the ground , very low headset. was common with WP horses..
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post #56 of 102 Old 08-19-2014, 11:36 PM
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
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Regarding muscle gain;
Look at a human bodybuilder. When they want to increase muscle bulk, they add calories and as such their body fat increases too. They only shred body far before a competition, because by shredding to lose fat, they also lose some muscle. It is how the body works. Fat and muscle go hand in hand.

A horse is the same. A skinny horse cannot, read, cannot, gain muscle bulk when it is not getting enough calories to simply gain body fat. You MUST feed the horse up to a healthy weight prior to increasing work load to increase muscle. And when the work increases, so must the feed. Otherwise you are just burning fat.

In regards to the contraception you have put on this horse. Please take it off. You have strapped the horse's head down. This is SO counter productive. Not to mention I was cringing throughout your video as you did not have him on a line - if he decided to lose his head, there is NOTHING you could have done to prevent him from flipping over backwards as there is no release on his head. Or putting a leg through those ropes. Either way, broken back/neck/leg or just mentally wrecked horse.
Just don't do it.
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post #57 of 102 Old 08-21-2014, 07:02 PM
Join Date: Aug 2014
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The second lot of pics are a bit further away so forgive me if I'm wrong but looks like he's picked up some muscle tone on his shoulders, which is great. For some reason I always look at the shoulder muscles first. Once he's back to his normal weight I'm sure you'll see more muscle transformation. I'm not sure what you do with him, but he looks like he could be a good jumper so it would be good to focus on his rear end :)
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post #58 of 102 Old 08-21-2014, 08:18 PM
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gallant, Alabama
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I haven't read the othr replies, but I'll give what I think...

Firstly, he looks depressed and unhappy in the second set of pictures, whereas he looked hapy and alert in the first set. He also looks much worse, IMO in the second set of pictures. His weight is too low (I'd recommend putting him of Cool Calories fat supplement).

Secondly, you stated that he got the runs with the Alfalfa. That typically means you put him on too much before his body was used to it. I've fed Alfalfa to my horses for years and have never had one of the get the runs from it, but I also introduce it slowly, over the course of several weeks. I'd personally put him back on alfalfa, but do it very slowly.

Thirdly, I'd deworm him GOOD with something like Zimecterin Gold.

fourthly, he has lost a lot of muscle tone, especially in his rear. I'd work ONLY on lunging him, hand-trotting uphills, etc... until you get his weight back. At the weight he's at, I wouldn't ride him, if he were my horse.

Horseshoe Loop Farm: Home of Gypsie (22 y/o TWH mare), Dakota (10 y/o TWH gelding), Codie (18 y/o Walkaloosa gelding) & Harlow (9 y/o APHA mare)
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post #59 of 102 Old 08-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
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You have said that you feed him 2 scoops of Safechoice original and a scoop of Safechoice Senior. First, great feed choice! I feed both; don't worry about it being a "Senior" feed, that is just the horse age group that it is design for, but some of the great things that make it great for the old guys, also makes it wonderful for the younger ones as well. It is designed to be a complete feed, meaning an old horse with no teeth could swallow it whole and be able to get what they need nutritionally from it.

However, my question is, how much are you feeding? Scoops vary in size. I recommend getting a scale and weighing your scoops empty, then again with the amount of feed in it. Do a little math and viola, you have the actual amount you are feeding. It is very important to truly know what you are feeding.

Be careful adding in too much oils too fast. Oils can give him the squirts.

Also, try not to be so defensive, you have made it very clear that you are doing everything you can for this guy. Its okay that he lost weight when he moved, horses do that. TimWhit91 said that he thought your horse looked unhappy in his first reply. But Hagen did look unhappy in those second pics, however, it could have just been the moment, angle ect....Just because he looked unhappy doesn't mean he is unhappy.

People are going to express all kinds of opinions, you don't have to agree with them! The good ones or the bad, but take it all with a grain of salt and know that a lot of the people on here have years and years of experience. Most are just trying to help and express their thoughts.

You are doing great by Hagen, just keep going and listen to what people have to say, then form your own opinion on what is right for you.
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Last edited by nitapitalou; 08-21-2014 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Correcting name and "happiness"
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post #60 of 102 Old 08-29-2014, 10:56 AM
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Colorado
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I feed my semi-hard keeper (old TB) 2.5lbs Dynasty Senior from Kent feeds, with 2lbs beat pulp, his supplements and 1 cup of canola oil, grass hay 3x a day. Not only has he put on weight, but his coat is EXTREMELY shiny.

Also, I did think he looked unhappy in the second set, but it might have been the angle because he looked quite happy and even a little mischievous in a picture you posted later. ;) He's fine, just needs some lbs. I totally get that, and I know how annoying/hard it is to deal with people's opinion of your care based on if your horse can pack on the pounds or not. He'll turn around. Just keep throwing food at him.
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