Lets talk about foals :) Appaloosa foal - Page 3
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics > Horse Conformation Critique

Lets talk about foals :) Appaloosa foal

This is a discussion on Lets talk about foals :) Appaloosa foal within the Horse Conformation Critique forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Chocolatey appaloosa
  • Appaloosa son of a hustler

Like Tree37Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    01-23-2012, 09:48 AM
  #21
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostwindAppaloosa    
I don't know how many people here are into appys. Im sure more are into other breeds but if anyone knows what is and has been going on in ApHC for sometime now you would know that nearly every "Appaloosa" you see .. you'd be hard pressed to find any ACTUAL appaloosas in their pedigree... Example: This horse has several titleholders in the ApHC... but look at his pedigree? See the horses that say "appaloosa" look at what their parents are.. and so on and so on.
Chocolatey Appaloosa
Interesting conversation. I agree with you on some things, disagree on others, and both agree and disagree with Bubba on certain issues.

There is probably more Appy expertise on this board than you might realize, so no need to think there aren't knowledgeable Appy people here. I am 64 years old and was raised with Appys, bred Appys for over 20 years myself, and my granfather, who was a Native American, raised Appys for about 30 years beginning back around 1925 - long before ApHC was ever thought of. And I went through the Appy wars with ApHC in the early 80's when ApHC made the decision to sell out the breed in favor of generating revenues and achieving major registry status by remaining a color registry instead of transitioning to become an actual breed registry. ApHC tries to promote itself as a breed registry, which is blatantly stupid...it also tries to lead people to believe it "originated" the Appy, which is even more stupid.

Here is where I sort of straddle the middle between you and Bubba. I am always pleased to see Appy to Appy breeding, however let's call a spade a spade - much of the foundation Appy breeding has been for color without always incorporating the best of choices in breeding stock for conformation and ability. As Bubba says, this has altered the original concept and purpose of the Appy, which was versatility - a combination of endurance and performance that no other breed has. The poor choice of breeding stock by many foundation breeders has destroyed much of that versatility (I am not necessarily referring to you directly here), so that many modern day "foundation" Appys, while truly Appys, are mere shadows of what the breed once was.

Of course that is still better than what ApHC has done. Many people don't realize that Appys pre-date Quarterhorses by many many years. Native Americans were raising Appys before Quarterhorses even existed and certainlygenerations before the first Thoroughbred set foot on American soil. Yet ApHC permits - and encourages - outcrossing with both Quarterhorses and Thoroughbreds. Crossing with Arabs doesn't bother me as much, because Arabs and Appys have very similar roots. While it is true Thoroughbreds arose from desert roots as did Appys, in the case of Thoroughbreds, they have long since been developed to have little to no resemblence to those roots, therefore outcrossing to modern day Thoroughbreds is not crossing similar to similar, but rather crossing two disctinctly different breeds resulting in what actually is nothing more than a grade. That is to take nothing away fromt the horses themselves...an Appy/TB cross can be a great horse, as can an Appy/QH cross. But they are not Appys.

You refer to Frank Scripter lines, but he was not noted for breeding great horses - he was noted for breeding Leopards. While that is great for Leopard folks, it is not necessarily great for the breed, and quite honestly I have never been impressed by his lines - other than the fact that they were at least ruly Appy lines and not Quarterhorses with spots.

To get back to your foal, I think the foal is very nice, and as I said I appreciate Appy to Appy breeding, but that doesn't change my opinion that the foal is still the result of mediocre breeding programs which are quite honestly color breeding programs rather than conformation and ability breeding programs.

Just my opinion, of course, and please don't take my opinion the wrong way, because any Appy to Appy breeding program is still better than what ApHC condones...
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    01-23-2012, 04:47 PM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    
Interesting conversation. I agree with you on some things, disagree on others, and both agree and disagree with Bubba on certain issues.

There is probably more Appy expertise on this board than you might realize, so no need to think there aren't knowledgeable Appy people here. I am 64 years old and was raised with Appys, bred Appys for over 20 years myself, and my granfather, who was a Native American, raised Appys for about 30 years beginning back around 1925 - long before ApHC was ever thought of. And I went through the Appy wars with ApHC in the early 80's when ApHC made the decision to sell out the breed in favor of generating revenues and achieving major registry status by remaining a color registry instead of transitioning to become an actual breed registry. ApHC tries to promote itself as a breed registry, which is blatantly stupid...it also tries to lead people to believe it "originated" the Appy, which is even more stupid.

Here is where I sort of straddle the middle between you and Bubba. I am always pleased to see Appy to Appy breeding, however let's call a spade a spade - much of the foundation Appy breeding has been for color without always incorporating the best of choices in breeding stock for conformation and ability. As Bubba says, this has altered the original concept and purpose of the Appy, which was versatility - a combination of endurance and performance that no other breed has. The poor choice of breeding stock by many foundation breeders has destroyed much of that versatility (I am not necessarily referring to you directly here), so that many modern day "foundation" Appys, while truly Appys, are mere shadows of what the breed once was.

Of course that is still better than what ApHC has done. Many people don't realize that Appys pre-date Quarterhorses by many many years. Native Americans were raising Appys before Quarterhorses even existed and certainlygenerations before the first Thoroughbred set foot on American soil. Yet ApHC permits - and encourages - outcrossing with both Quarterhorses and Thoroughbreds. Crossing with Arabs doesn't bother me as much, because Arabs and Appys have very similar roots. While it is true Thoroughbreds arose from desert roots as did Appys, in the case of Thoroughbreds, they have long since been developed to have little to no resemblence to those roots, therefore outcrossing to modern day Thoroughbreds is not crossing similar to similar, but rather crossing two disctinctly different breeds resulting in what actually is nothing more than a grade. That is to take nothing away fromt the horses themselves...an Appy/TB cross can be a great horse, as can an Appy/QH cross. But they are not Appys.

You refer to Frank Scripter lines, but he was not noted for breeding great horses - he was noted for breeding Leopards. While that is great for Leopard folks, it is not necessarily great for the breed, and quite honestly I have never been impressed by his lines - other than the fact that they were at least ruly Appy lines and not Quarterhorses with spots.

To get back to your foal, I think the foal is very nice, and as I said I appreciate Appy to Appy breeding, but that doesn't change my opinion that the foal is still the result of mediocre breeding programs which are quite honestly color breeding programs rather than conformation and ability breeding programs.

Just my opinion, of course, and please don't take my opinion the wrong way, because any Appy to Appy breeding program is still better than what ApHC condones...

Loved your whole post. Very thought out and non offensive. I totally agree with everything you said and you are correct. Frank was known for breeding leopards. Not for show records on any horse. There are very few breeders perpetuating the appyxappy breeding and like you said.. stock is mediocre in a lot of programs.

I am planning on exhibiting flair this summer in halter and loungeline. I will certainly keep everyone updated on his wins :) I've also got another mare im training in endurance this summer she just turned five. Im hoping to have her ready for competition by next year.
     
    01-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #23
Banned
Keep us (me) posted. I would like to see more foundation Appys competing and bringing more supporters of true Appys into the fold...
     
    01-23-2012, 07:42 PM
  #24
Yearling
Too funny! I saw your foal (and boy, is he cute!) and my first thought was "Is this a Knabstrupper?" I love that leopard spotting!!
     
    01-23-2012, 08:48 PM
  #25
Trained
The most versatile horse in the world that I had honor of knowing & competing against was an Appaloosa. His papers read all Aphc, not a single Aqha or JC, I am still friends with his owner (horse has been deceased for a decade), I asked her what his papers read after reading this post. Thanks for the informative posts and the great pics of the foal, sorry I can't look at him too long, he truly does him give me googly eyes.
     
    01-24-2012, 11:46 AM
  #26
Foal
I agree with Ghostwind Appaloosa, I owned 7 stallions and they were all handled and ridden by my 3 daughters, these 7 stallions were also pastured together.
My App stallion was a son of "The Roman Hustler", his dam was a QH with Poco Pine & Clabber Bar breeding, my app mares were foundation bred, grandaughter of Bambi E etc. also had afew rat tail mares.
The Appaloosa's today are Quarter horses with spots.
     
    01-24-2012, 12:39 PM
  #27
Started
I am an appaloosa fan for sure - thanks for this thread!
     
    01-24-2012, 12:53 PM
  #28
Trained
I really like his shoulder and hindquarter (OP's foal that is). Nice flashy colouring too. But I feel like he'll mature to have an unattractive head and possibly a short and blocky neck as well. I see some potential there if he's bred to mares with more refined heads and necks provided they ALSO share his lovely shoulder and hindquarter. You don't want to compromise on conformation for the sake of pretty heads and necks.
     
    01-24-2012, 02:16 PM
  #29
Weanling
My eyes hurt.. He's so grogeous, make sure you post more pictures as he grows up!
     
    01-24-2012, 11:11 PM
  #30
Banned
Just wanted to share these two for thoughts...
Two full siblings.




     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lets talk teeth Golden Horse General Off Topic Discussion 4 09-21-2011 01:59 PM
Lets talk hoof boots sillybunny11486 Hoof Care 7 04-18-2010 02:14 AM
Lets see pix of the '09 foals. smrobs Horse Pictures 5 01-04-2010 09:01 AM
Lets talk about pinto genetics :) weefoal Horse Breeding 36 04-26-2009 01:36 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0