Yup. And the fact that people think "collection" comes from only pulling the face backwards.
The more you can get your horse to drive from behind and lift through the stomach, open up the shoulder, is more important than the face. Any horse that is pulled back through the face will hollow out the back, fall onto the forehand, and false frame, regardless of where his neck is set.
I just wonder if my mare is EVER physically going to be able to rock onto her haunches. Fairly steep shoulder, hardly any hip, long back with a very slight roach. We are going to go back to my old trainer for a few months for some dressage training and get her started in jumping. I would love to show again, but am not competitive, it would still be fun with her. But I miss those catty horses in the jumper courses.
Like I said, I am trying to better my eye for what kind of movement the horse will likely have when it comes time to pick my next one (second one). My eventual goal is to pick a yearling on the ground from a nice stallion that throws consistent quality babies. Most likely for jumping, but I have a goal for appearance and athleticism.
I appreciate that you are mentioning the placement of the base of the neck. That is more important than whether the head is up or down. If the base of the neck is low by birth, it is harde for the hrose to raise it, and rock back onto his hind. You won't get that nice arch to the neck that Mr. Livingston shows in the extreme (I LOVE him!)
Also, though, look at the size, length of shoulder and angle this is fromed by the humerus as it joins the shoulder, and the angle of the humerus joining at the elbow.
That halter horse's neck is tied in pretty high, but his shoulder, (what I can see of the bone structure under all that overly ropy muscle) is actually rather small.
Not sure the angle, cant' see the photo right now.
But, I'm saying that the shoulder needs to be considered WITH the neck.
I was sad to find out that Mr. Livingston is no longer with us. He was standing here in Ocala for a while.
With Tiny bringing up the angle of the shoulders,
The halter horse's shoulder is very flat in the front where it should be rounded. Looking at it again, in the photo, his point of shoulder is where the neck and shoulder meet.
In the other horses, even VS Code Red (Cant see "Chex" clearly), the point of shoulder is lower than where the neck connects to the chest.
They all have a similar angle of slope to the shoulder.
What kind of stride would the halter horse have? I am guessing short and unable to get much up and down movement.
That's pretty ugly, if you ask me. I mean not the kind of movement that is very functional. But, then he isn't bred for that, I guess. I am mystified as to what Halter horses are bred for. But, that's me.
He has an average reach, but not a lot of knee action. His shoulder is even a little lower than the halter stallion on the first page. It's almost like this guy can't do the stretched toes pointed trot. He reminds me of some of the body builders that can't move properly because of all the muscle. Those butt muscles are so big he can't even canter properly, they force the leg forward before he is fully extended. It's a little frightening to watch him canter.