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Newbie with a request!

This is a discussion on Newbie with a request! within the Horse Conformation Critique forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        12-04-2012, 03:41 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    I think her price is right and she looks very quiet and willing which means she CAN be trained correctly to use her body etc. I'd like to see her pastern angle up closer without all that hair because she looks like she drops her fetlocks low in the front.

    But back to the horse, I bet she would slow down....jog and lope slower and smoother with the right rider. You can see in the vid the rider had a VERY active seat pushing this mare forward. Personally, I think she would make a cute WP horse! She breaks nice from the wither, doesn't need a lot of rein contact....even though the rider was too active with her hands.
         
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        12-05-2012, 12:05 AM
      #12
    Weanling
    Hey all!

    So, an update (with pics below!). I went and saw Sugar today and I was truly wow'd by what a well-mannered horse she is, let alone a well-mannered 6 year old mare! The owners and I each worked her in the round pen and under saddle. First of all, she is a dream to work around; she will stand patient for days, when you lead her she is the kind of horse that stops when you stop, backs when you back, etc.

    In the round pen, she was incredibly well behaved and never broke her gait unless asked to. I actually do things a little differently than the owner (I never let horses change direction with their hindquarters facing me) and when I asked her to do these things, I could tell she was reasoning out my commands and managed to turn towards me every time.

    In the saddle, I have to say, she is not as forehand-heavy as she seemed in the video, but it's there. The owner mentioned that they sometimes work her in a snaffle to help, which was good to hear, but she still needs work on that hind end. That said, she has a be-a-u-tiful jog and trot, and collects when I ask but clearly I would need to work on her holding her collection. I think that will also come with consistent collected riding to build the necessary muscle. She never picked up the wrong lead at a canter and she's actually quite comfortable, but I didn't try flying changes on her. As for the walk-to-canter, I think that relates back to her needing to strengthen her hindquarters and work off of them. When I asked, she kind of slips a half-stride of a trot in between, but the owners claim she can do walk-to-canter (and given I haven't ridden in 8 months, it might have been my cues/seat).

    What really impressed me was that in the arena [after having been ridden earlier that day], Sugar didn't break gait or give me any more than I was asking for when we were moving in the direction of the barn. And, when a spookyscary things quad roared right by the arena, she started to spook but immediately gave me her full attention when I asked for it. Lastly, I was really impressed with her willingness to listen to my cues, or reason them out if she didn't understand them even (ie. She didn't understand neck stretches touching her nose to my toe, at first). There is no question that she is intelligent and a quick-learner.

    Now, the problems. Of course, she's downhill, needs more training ($$), and is at the top of my budget. I'm going back tomorrow to take her out on the trails and see how she does. Here are the promised pics-- any insights?? I'm struggling because she is the first prospect horse I have actually hopped up on, but I am so impressed with her demeanor and willingness and I know people are waiting to see her if I don't buy...

    PS, I attached a picture of her front hooves. I don't think her fetlocks are dropped? But I am by no means practiced at spotting them. Thanks for listening to my rant, all! :) All of my friends and family are in NY, and I'm in AZ, so it's been tough not having horse people who I am close with to go shopping with me.

    [edit] If her toes look long, it's because she's due for shoes on Thursday. :)
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        12-05-2012, 12:13 AM
      #13
    Trained
    Sounds like a great trail horse! I will say that my mare came to me very heavy on the forehand. With the right riding, it's pretty easy to get them lighter [easier than getting a high-headed horse to come down, in my honest opinion]. Just takes a little know-how and lots of trot transitions. =]
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        12-05-2012, 07:59 AM
      #14
    Green Broke
    She is loooong in the back, so if you ride her on trail do a LOT of hills trotting (and get her trotting FORWARD). Trot her UP the hills with your butt out of the saddle and a fairly loose rein. It will build her abdominal muscles and help her hold collections better (tho this horse will never collect really nicely.. she can still do better and be lighter on the forehand).

    She has a steep shoulder, and her point of shoulder is set low with the humerus (point of shoulder to elbow) being at a very low angle. This will not help her to collect or be light on the forehand.

    Her neck is base thick and set low.. another knock against her collecting well or being forehand light.

    She will need a LOT of work to get light on the forehand.. and you will likely need to learn how to help her attain this and train this because it is not a 60 day or 90 day or 120 day process but a LIFE LONG process with a horse built like this.

    As said previously, I like her disposition.. she needs better riding pushing her forward and a LOT LESS bit (I would be tempted to ride this horse in a side pull to help her raise her head some and to learn to move forward into the bridle). She does not need any Whoa on her.. she needs a bit more go and then a light touch to remind her to stay off her forehand while being pushed forward with leg.

    The second photo concerns me some.. she is pointing with her left front foot. I hope it was just an awkward photo and not something she does regularly.

    A horse that points a front foot.. or a horse that stands and swaps front feet pointing one, then the other, has front end pain.. so really observe her while she is just standing around (if you can). I see a horse that is this sound looking in the legs pointing and my first thought is navicular issues.

    I still would not part with the amount of money being asked (but it is YOUR money). IF you are going to pay that much for this horse, do spend the extra and get a PPE and have the vet look especially for navicular issues.
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        12-05-2012, 09:21 AM
      #15
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elana    

    The second photo concerns me some.. she is pointing with her left front foot. I hope it was just an awkward photo and not something she does regularly.

    A horse that points a front foot.. or a horse that stands and swaps front feet pointing one, then the other, has front end pain.. so really observe her while she is just standing around (if you can). I see a horse that is this sound looking in the legs pointing and my first thought is navicular issues.

    I still would not part with the amount of money being asked (but it is YOUR money). IF you are going to pay that much for this horse, do spend the extra and get a PPE and have the vet look especially for navicular issues.
    Thanks for the critique, Elana! The owner was backing her in the second shot and didn't know that I was taking a picture... Is that what you are referring to, or something else?
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        12-05-2012, 09:44 AM
      #16
    Green Broke
    Yes. That is the photo. Sounds like the horse was in motion so it is probably not an issue.
         
        12-05-2012, 10:00 AM
      #17
    Weanling
    Elana, when you say she will "never collect well"... Are you saying this horse will never collect say, at the level of dressage collection, or that she won't be able to collect sufficiently for western pleasure if I want to show a year or two down the road? Thanks again for your help.
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        12-05-2012, 10:05 AM
      #18
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by existentialpony    
    Elana, when you say she will "never collect well"... Are you saying this horse will never collect say, at the level of dressage collection, or that she won't be able to collect sufficiently for western pleasure if I want to show a year or two down the road? Thanks again for your help.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    She's not built a whole lot different from a lot of your average WP horses, and she certainly is able to stay off the forehand...but that will come from you and correct riding, lots of leg and a maintaining leg at the lope especially. She's got a nice set to her hock despite a little longer back and that WILL help her get under herself. The rider is not asking this mare to stay off the forehand at all. So I blame it more on the rider than the way the horse is built.
    Elana likes this.
         
        12-05-2012, 02:19 PM
      #19
    Green Broke
    She will probably do OK at WP. She is just going to require work and she always will. Does not mean don't do the work.. just be aware you will need to do the work.

    If you are looking for flying lead changes and so forth you are going to have to ride her forward and sit up straight with your heels under you (the rider in the videos is sitting a chair seat which does not help the horse). A horse must be off her forehand to do that sort of work.
         
        12-08-2012, 11:48 AM
      #20
    Foal
    Would love to hear what came out of this - did you buy the mare? I do like her, not sure about the angle of her front pastern/hooves but for trail and a little bit competition some conformational flaws can be overlooked while disposition is a key element, and she seems to have all going for her in this department. For my part of the country (Midwest) she is overprized, $2500 would be the upper limit. Since the seller seems to have her advertised for $4000 and somewhere else for $3200 he is probably willing to take offers, though.
         

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