No-Go option for purchase? - Page 2

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No-Go option for purchase?

This is a discussion on No-Go option for purchase? within the Horse Conformation Critique forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        04-07-2014, 03:50 PM
    Green Broke
    That may be the case.. but having had a horse about this age with OCD I would get xrays. It is not fun to breed a mare and get a nice foal that ends up being put down just as he enters training because he has OCD lesions. Nicest gelding in many many ways.. and just a joy (they always are, aren't they?)

    Get a diagnosis of that hock. A thoroughpin was not treated back in the day (back in MY day LOL) and was considered a blemish.

    I would like you to be right Foxhunter. My suggestion is to make sure as there is no point in the heart break or the money trail OCD can take you down!.
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        04-07-2014, 06:15 PM
    Green Broke
    I would pass. He had joint issues. It looks like they overfed him so he grew to fast for his joints. That could also be a spavin, but he would only be good as pasture pet or pal , only gets worse with age and use.
        04-08-2014, 07:28 AM
    Originally Posted by Foxhunter    
    Obsessive compulsory disorder - something I certainly do not suffer with which should you visit, you would see!
    Are you sure about this , I think we all on this forum have some level of OCD...

    When I visit the stud I will make some more pictures. Is there any clear difference on feel / visual between thoroughpin and OCD? I anyway will have a search on this. He will most likely be a no-go.

    Thanks a lot for all your responses!
        04-08-2014, 08:13 AM
    Depending on what the OP wants to do with the horse, I will counter the 'nay sayers'.

    My afterthought purchase gelding Riley had OCD (the osteochondritis variety) in his right hind as a youngster. He developed the bone spur/bone flap as described by Foxhunter and had surgery to rectify/remove.

    I bought him to be my second horse, my steady Eddie, my husband horse (some hope!) and boy am I lucky if found him!

    He is an amazing horse, intelligent, trustworthy, amazingly sensitive to the aids, and a very easy keeper. I have discovered a joy of dressage that I never thought I would have with him!

    He is not built for I would never have looked at him for the likes of endurance or competitive eventing anyway. If I had been wanting him for those then I would have been out off by the OCD. But I wanted a good all-round pleasure horse, and I found one at a good price the reflected the OCD.

    Yes, he may have arthritis in that joint in the future, yes he may have arthritis in all his joints in the future. But what horse is without problems as it gets old?

    So - it comes back to what the OP wants to do with him, and now much they are asking.
        04-08-2014, 08:15 AM
    Green Broke
    From the Merck Manual:
    Thoroughpin refers to a distention of the tarsal sheath of the deep digital flexor tendon just above the hock. It is characterized by plantar fluid-filled swellings visible on both medial and lateral sides proximal to the tibiotarsal joint, which distinguish it from bog spavin (see Bog Spavin in Horses). It is usually unilateral and varies in size. The lesion is referred to as a tenosynovitis of traumatic origin, but it may not be associated with any detectable inflammation, pain, or lameness. It essentially constitutes a blemish and so is of major clinical importance in show horses. Treatment is by withdrawal of the fluid and injection of hyaluronate and/or a long-acting corticosteroid, which may need to be repeated until the swelling does not recur.

    Osteochondrosis diagnosis needs Xrays. Xrays should be part of any PPE and are part of why a PPE costs so much money.
        04-08-2014, 08:28 AM
    My filly was thought to have OCD about a year ago. Her offside stifle swells up on occasion and she goes lame on that leg. I never did get xrays done but her lameness is entirely feed and muscular related. I think what happens is that her muscles in that leg get extremely tight [tying-up possibly as a horse that ties up reacts to most of the same feeds as she does] and as a result her stifle gets pulled out of alignment, resulting in swelling and lameness.

    The exact same thing happens to me, in my knee.

    I still hold out hope that she'll be my eventing/showjumping horse. She's holding up very nicely to dressage work and doesn't go sore after the occasional free-jumping session so I hope that when I start her over fences for real she'll be fine.

    The more work she's in the sounder she is!
        04-09-2014, 03:14 AM
    Green Broke
    It is heartbreaking to have a horse, that you have ridden and kept for years to have to have it euthanized because it has arthritis, cannot bend the joints to have farrier work , get up and down without being in constant pain. They can trip and fall while walking, causing major injury to other joints.
        04-09-2014, 03:50 AM
    Super Moderator
    As said earlier, many things can cause OCD. A box foot is more often then not the result of OCD in the very young foal.
    I would look at the above colt very carefully. Assess whether or not it was a soft swelling or a boney growth. If the latter and I was still interested then I would have it X rayed then decide.

    Incorrect feeding can often cause OCD and with people wanting their foal to do well often feed hard food to soon and to much.

    A friend bred an exceptional colt. I have never met anyone more neurotic then this woman and she panicked over anything. For some reason she had the vet out. The lad that came was only just qualified and he was spouting a load of vet speak which she didn't really understand.
    Next time I saw the foal he was with his mother on some very poor grass, more weed than grass and very rough ground having been poached during the winter. I immediately said they needed to be moved. I was told the vet said that the foal didn't need to much grass because of the threat of OCD.
    As both were loosing condition she was feeding them to much (as per the manufacturer recommendations) and of course he did develop OCD in the fetlocks.

    It all got very out of hand, the vet was inexperienced, he proudly said he had worked in Newmarket (one of the biggest racehorse areas in the UK) when I questioned him on this he had to admit that it was when he was training and mostly he had been dealing with small animals.
    Owner followed the vet advice and shut the colt up for 6 months ending with a frantic wind sucking yearling.
    He came to me as a yearling, still meant to be on reduced exercise. My vet looked at him and said throw him out in the field and forget him, the fetlocks would never change from what they were,
    A beautiful foal ruined from vet advice.
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        04-09-2014, 12:41 PM
    Green Broke
    Bad vet advice is bad vet advice.. here or in the UK.

    Here in the US a PPE includes xrays, blood work and so forth.
        04-12-2014, 10:24 AM
    I'm sorry to hear Foxhunters colt story. Reminds me when I was advised by the breeder to give a x amount of puppy feed to our new shepherd pup, so she could not grow to fast. The poor thing became so hungry that she started eating little stones. She almost died. After that she was free to eat anytime she felt like and grew into a perfectly healthy dog.

    I guess a bunch of common sense and a look how nature does it, we'll come a long way.

    The particular colt was used for shows and most probable extra fed to encourage growth and condition. The ones that are not chosen to participate in shows are kept in the velt where during wintertime the grazing is less. Plus enough movement on different types of soil and rocks and so on. More natural, more healthy I believe.

    Thanks so much for all comments. Once I have visited the stud again, I'll sent more pictures and information to comment on.

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