When should a horse/picture/video be open to critique? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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When should a horse/picture/video be open to critique?

Hi everyone,

We are in the process of reevaluating our policy about when a horse is subject to critique and wanted to know what everyone thinks makes the most sense.

Initially our policy was that only a horse's owner could post its picture and ask others' thoughts. However, experience has proven that members often want to discuss potential buys, share things they find interesting about horses other than their own, etc. These seem to be legitimate reasons for posting pictures of horses other than one's own and requesting comments.

At the same time, though, we'd like to protect horse owners who post pictures or videos of their horses merely for the purpose of sharing them with friends, family, their forum, etc. Typically such casual posters do not anticipate receiving a scathing critique just for sharing a horse they love or are proud of.

What type of policy regarding when a horse/picture can be critiqued do you think makes sense and why? Below is the draft we have so far, but of course it is subject to change.

Quote:
Horses that are posted on the Internet for the purposes of sale or breeding, or explicitly ask for critique, are fair game for critique. In those cases, the poster effectively holds their horse out to the world, so the world is entitled to comment.

On the other hand, where a horse is posted merely for the purpose of sharing with friends, apprising others of progress, etc., and does not invite critique, members should not lambast the poster or her horse with criticism.
What do you think so far? It seems to make sense that anyone who purports to be a professional trainer should also be subject to critique. Less clear is the issue of YouTube videos where people post videos of themselves and their horses, often with very little context.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts so that we can make our policy as informed, reasonable, and fair as possible.

Sincerely,
Mike on behalf of the Horse Forum Team
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post #2 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 06:38 AM
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I think that seems fair. Obviously if you're selling a horse and have pictures of it on the net, people are going to get other's critiques to know if its worthwhile. I think you should specify though that criticism should be constructive because I've had some pretty mean and silly critiques like 'what an ugly horse' or 'what a **** arena.''
Overall I think that's very fair.
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post #3 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 07:49 AM
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Seems reasonable.

There is going to be a gray and fuzzy line though. When a member posts a thread (not in the critique section) that says "Look how great Dobbin is coming along and we are jumping 3' now, it is the best, don't you think?" will it be wrong for posters to point out that Dobbin is very lame and though Dobbin does look much better still not ready to be doing 3' jumps for so many medical reasons?
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post #4 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 08:10 AM
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yes I like the idea,

If you post a picture of your horse, potential buy or stud etc etc in the critique section then posters should be prepared for some negative and positive critisism. Also I have noticed people sometimes post 'critique my jumping' in the jumping section, this is an example.
So critiquing should only be allowed for all posts in the critique section and in posts that ask for it. Also I think that in the critique section only the horse or rider should be critiqued according to what is asked e.g. 'critique my horse'- only the horse should be critiqued not the rider style etc.

I think I got this right admin? I think it is a good idea though to prevent upset and arguments on the forum.

Keep your feet on the ground when your head's in the clouds.

Last edited by speedy da fish; 02-16-2010 at 08:14 AM.
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post #5 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 11:08 AM
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I think more we are talking about pictures on the Net. Not just here on the forum. What pictures posted on the net are fair game and which are not.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #6 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 12:43 PM
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Some of my questions are posting pictures of situations where a person thinks abuse is involved (posting pictures of the property and or horse) or posting pictures of a horse that doesn't belong to the poster but to critique (like a stallion).

Is there a line that can get crossed if a person loses business from stallion service because someone has posted a picture and a negative critiquing session goes on? Are there any internet rules about taking a picture from someone's website to discuss on a forum (especially if the discussion is very unfavorable)? Or the Craigslist ads?

Unless it weighs a ton... it's just a horse. Draft horse motto.
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post #7 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solon View Post
Some of my questions are posting pictures of situations where a person thinks abuse is involved (posting pictures of the property and or horse) or posting pictures of a horse that doesn't belong to the poster but to critique (like a stallion).

Is there a line that can get crossed if a person loses business from stallion service because someone has posted a picture and a negative critiquing session goes on? Are there any internet rules about taking a picture from someone's website to discuss on a forum (especially if the discussion is very unfavorable)? Or the Craigslist ads?
Legally it appears that the usage of someone else's photos or videos in the context of such a critique is covered under the "Fair Use" exception to copyright law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship.
Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Copyright Office
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair: Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

Note that the above does not constitute legal advice.

That said, just because the law may take such an expansive view on what is subject to critique doesn't necessarily mean that we have to. The purpose of this thread is to decide when things should be off limits to critique so that people can feel safe sharing pictures of their horses without getting lambasted for it, at least here at the Horse Forum.

In the example you gave, Solon, it would seem to me that when a person offers their horse for a commercial service like a stallion service, others should be entitled to discuss their thoughts on the value of that service.
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post #8 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solon View Post
Some of my questions are posting pictures of situations where a person thinks abuse is involved (posting pictures of the property and or horse) or posting pictures of a horse that doesn't belong to the poster but to critique (like a stallion).

Is there a line that can get crossed if a person loses business from stallion service because someone has posted a picture and a negative critiquing session goes on? Are there any internet rules about taking a picture from someone's website to discuss on a forum (especially if the discussion is very unfavorable)? Or the Craigslist ads?
Legally it appears that the usage of someone else's photos or videos in the context of such a critique is covered under the "Fair Use" exception to copyright law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship.
Fair use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Copyright Office
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair: Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

Note that the above does not constitute legal advice.

That said, just because the law may take such an expansive view on what is subject to critique doesn't necessarily mean that we have to. The purpose of this thread is to decide when things should be off limits to critique so that people can feel safe sharing pictures of their horses without getting lambasted for it, at least here at the Horse Forum.

In the example you gave, Solon, it would seem to me that when a person offers their horse for a commercial service like a stallion service, others should be entitled to discuss their thoughts on the value of that service.
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post #9 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 02:33 PM
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However, if you look on many websites that I've seen pictures come from, it will say copyright and do not use without permission. Which doesn't fall under fair use from what I understand that law to be. I may be misunderstanding it.

ETA: It may be worthwhile to require a link where you get the photos from and then if there is an issue with copyright it could be dealt with rather than have someone come across their stuff and find out the hard way.

What about people taking pictures of abused horses and properties though?

Unless it weighs a ton... it's just a horse. Draft horse motto.
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post #10 of 23 Old 02-16-2010, 03:20 PM
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Kind of a tangent. I find it very upsetting when people post things with Proof and such across them when it is clear they snagged them from some photographer's web site with out paying for them.
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