Should I shoe or not? - Page 4

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Should I shoe or not?

This is a discussion on Should I shoe or not? within the Horse Grooming forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        12-18-2013, 12:19 PM
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    Competition horses, such as eventing horses and show jumping horses, that are running and jumping at speed on different terrains like grass or mud, need to be shod and have studs or caulks to prevent slipping and reduce the risk of a fall. Corrective shoeing is also a whole other category. Example, I've seen foals born with contracted tendons and trimming was not enough.

    Actually, today unshod horse are competing in events from cross country and endurance to stadium jumping as more people are starting to realize that it's best for the horse (even if some events are not good for the joints, but that's a different issue). If the extra traction that cleated shoes provide is needed those riders are using boots to provide it (while still allowing the foot to function normally, but still creating the extra joint strain in cases where it applies).
    As for contracted tendons requiring a horse to be shod that's the same story they give for sever laminitis ("no trim is going to fix that"). No one is saying a "trim" will cure everything, but there are a lot of ways to treat something (successfully) without shoeing. People who deal only with doing things unshod have a lot more to draw on than just a trim (e.g. Boots, casting, etc, etc...). There are horses that were "beyond help" and told to be put down when shoeing failed to fix the problem and yet they became sound again without shoes. It's not easy. It's not quick. And if you're paying for it it's not cheap, but horses that the a vet and farrier failed some how managed to survive with an unshod treatment and different vet.

    Until I hear Dr Stasser or even Claudia Garner tell me that they've encountered a case that must be shod (I've seen the results of their work) I'll stay with the unshod solutions . So far it's worked best for my horses and the ones I've helped. The problems with shoeing is a bit overwhelming. All the issues created by shoeing makes me glad that I never had to make the change (many thanks to my grandfather).
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        12-18-2013, 12:37 PM
    Its- Can you name one high level international or even national eventer or show jumper successfully competing that goes barefoot or with just a boot? I can't think of one.

    As for you staying with unshod solutions, that is fine for you. I object to you saying no horse ever needs shoes.
    Inga likes this.
        12-18-2013, 12:38 PM
    Originally Posted by Zexious    
    Its--I never suggested you cared whether or not a horse had shoes xD

    I guess I'm just old school in that I feel you should be able to trust the professionals you hire (farriers, trainers, vets). Else, why hire them and not just learn to do it yourself?
    European old school . Most of the world did not shoe horses although the equivalent of "boots" have been made use of almost since recorded time. Most areas just never saw the need to nail things to the hoof when they could just use if the need ever arose and it still allow the foot to work normally.

    As for the professionals we hire. We ignored our vet for years (and the farriers knew better than to approach my grandfather about nailing shoes on any of our horses). Vet told me my white mare was going to have get shoes, because white feet are "soft" . It took awhile, but after about 6 years he just told me he was amazed at how well her feet were holding up and what was I doing? He just shook his head in disbelieve with I told him I worked her regularly, rode on the road almost daily (including 30 miles round trip to town 2 or 3 times a month). Point being that the vet was a professional, but still believed the myth about white feet vs black feet (he was the only large animal vet in the county though and had a great business in our almost all rural county with a 1 horse and 1 mule county seat ). Even professionals can believe things that have been proven false. Look at the vets who say TB flat track racing isn't bad for the horse vs those to say it is. Vets say that shoeing is good for a horse vs those who say it's not. They're like a bunch of politicians so I've learned to look at effects and results. So far nothing I've seen has convinced me that my grandfather wasn't right (although I have a much better understanding of why he was right....even if he didn't ). Being a professional just means you're getting paid for it. And holding on to the ways things have always been done can be good and bad. Would you want to Dr to treat you with 18th century procedures? That's what some people do with horses.
        12-18-2013, 01:02 PM
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    its- Can you name one high level international or even national eventer or show jumper successfully competing that goes barefoot or with just a boot? I can't think of one.

    As for you staying with unshod solutions, that is fine for you. I object to you saying no horse ever needs shoes.
    You can object. No one's going to stop you

    I never said they were doing it at the highest levels. Changes seldom start at the top.
    But Endurance racing makes for a good example. It wasn't that long ago that few if any unshod horses were doing much in Endurance racing. Now you find many unshod horse competing and winning and doing it big. I'd say the Tevis Cup is pretty big in the Endurance racing world and more and more riders are competing in it unshod (and the % completing it has been comparable and at time significantly greater than their shod counterparts).
    But then more and more people are starting to realize the benefits to their horses from being unshod.

    So I'll say it again. Doesn't matter to me what you do. If you want to see what unshod horses are doing in competitions you have the internet just like I do. To me, if people have started to successfully compete at lower levels (and they have) then just like endurance racing it's just a matter of time .
    Personally, I do long distance (not endurance) riding, so really could not care less about keeping up with shows or competitions. I just need my mares to have feet that can go anywhere I need them to so I take the time to get them ready. I know people who do like to compete though and I see unshod becoming more common. Who knows, in another 50 years they might starting saying the results of what happens to horses feet with shod is cruel . But until then do what you want and enjoy.
        12-18-2013, 01:08 PM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    I object to you saying no horse ever needs shoes.
    Same here. I find that most statements with absolutes are bound to be disproven eventually. I'd agree that the majority (and maybe even the vast majority) of horses wouldn't need shoes under the care of a competent trimmer.
    Inga likes this.
        12-18-2013, 01:13 PM
    Originally Posted by updownrider    

    As for you staying with unshod solutions, that is fine for you. I object to you saying no horse ever needs shoes.
    Oh, I forgot. I can just as easily object to you insisting that some horse do need shoes.

    We have that luxury to object or disbelieve what someone else says. We can say we don't believe facts that cannot be disproved. It wasn't until the last 1/2 century that they proved conclusively that two blue eyed people could have a brown eyed child, but I've known college educated people who got their degrees after 2000 that still believe it can't happen . Even in the face of our modern understanding of genetics.

    So you object and I'll object and we'll let the situation in the year 2100 settle who's objection held up. (change with horses is slow.... e.g there weren't many of us riding with just halters, without bits, in the 70's, but over 30 years later you could buy a bitless bridles ) No, I'm not saying everyone should ride bitless just because I do (even my dear, long departed grandfather didn't like me doing that).
        12-18-2013, 01:24 PM
    Originally Posted by verona1016    
    I'd agree that the majority (and maybe even the vast majority) of horses wouldn't need shoes under the care of a competent trimmer.
    Be careful saying that. You're getting dangerously close to crossing that line. You only one word away from "horses don't need shoes".

    Quick, call your farrier (and or vet) and tell him that you are so sorry and will never say it again.

    For penance you can put shoes back on your horse to show you didn't mean it.

    It's been fun ladies , but a bit pointless beyond this. All we can really do is rehash the same things in different ways.
    Enjoy your shod horses. We'll enjoy our unshod horses. And with all my heart (for your horse, not you ) I hope that none of the numerous problems that can arise from shoeing ever befall any of your horses. (I know they won't befall any of mine )
        12-18-2013, 01:54 PM
    Green Broke
    Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
    Be careful saying that. You're getting dangerously close to crossing that line. You only one word away from "horses don't need shoes".
    One word is often the difference between being open minded and not.
        12-18-2013, 04:21 PM
    Originally Posted by its lbs not miles    
    Would you mind telling us for what reason your horse couldn't go unshod?

    I've yet to encounter a situation that a horses "needed" to be shod.

    The best one I've heard (not here obviously ) was to treat a rotating coffin bone. It's a special shoe job. Doesn't always work and absolutely never "needs" to be done. Horses that were recommended to be put down, because the traditional shoeing treatment failed (and the coffin bone had penetrated the sole), have been fixed, fully recovered and saved "without" using shoes.
    Well myself, my vet, and my farrier were all not a fan of putting shoes on him. For me, I just knew the most history about his feet. He had on shoes before, but that was because his hoofwall was literally crumbling. That was almost 2 years ago.

    This time, he had a vast amount of stone bruising. He was tender footed, he had a blown absess, he had a lot going on with his feet because his previous trim wasn't helping him either. We tried hoof boots, but it wasn't working out. Our vet finally told us that the best thing was to just get him comfortable. So on the shoes went, and he was able to heal and able to walk. He got them pulled right after we moved to Louisiana, back in the summer. He's fine now, and can be barefoot.

    At that point in time, shoes were required to make him more comfortable. Once he had healed, he didn't need them to be comfortable anymore.
        12-19-2013, 03:57 AM
    I am Anti- Hildrud Stausser. I have researched her work for years and found that she has screwed up more animals that what has been "saved". You wont change my mind about her either.
    Inga likes this.

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