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Advice for going barefoot....

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  • Is whie line and lamenitis the same thing
  • Durasole pete ramey

 
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    06-09-2010, 03:18 PM
  #11
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by IllComeALopin    
So becuase I want him stalled at night and he cannot be turned out in a huge natrual-type enviroment He cannot go barefoot?

Guess I will be searching for a new farrier...

What if he gets 24/7 turnout and his feet chip away?
His feet are really brittle.. and AGAIN even though I roll them you can only roll them so much becuase there is nothing left to file. What do I do?
Stalling half the day will just slow the transition and keep him from toughening up quickly. Keeping him in the soft arena will also slow down the toughening of his feet even more. He needs to be turned out on pasture, so his feet can get used to what you will be riding him on.

You can go barefoot with him stalled half the day, you'll just need to invest in some boots and Durasole, and be ready for a long haul. When I took my mare barefoot and she was in a soft paddock (100'x100') it took her a full year to be sound enough for just riding around in our pastures without boots. Her feet are also tender and I still have to boot her on the trail (we have really rocky trails here).

If you can't get durasole now, get Turpentine and lather the bottoms of his feet with it daily. Keep him in the arena until he grows enough foot that he's comfortable in the pasture, then turn him out there. Keep feeding your hoof supplement, and add a all around vit/min supplement like GrandVite if you don't see substantial improvement in growth in the next 30 days. You should already see new growth coming from the top if he's been on his hoof supplement for two months.

If you can't get him comfortable, then you might look into Easyboot's Glue-On "Bare" boot or Renegade's glue on boot. If applied properly, a glue-on boot will stay on a horse's foot for 4-5 weeks.
     
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    06-10-2010, 12:30 AM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by draftrider    
I always wonder, when people have the fronts shod and leave the rears barefoot who they are fooling? Your horses feet are composed of the same stuff, front or back. A supplement doesn't just help back feet and leave crappy front ones. If your horse has great back feet and shod crappy front feet that your farrier just keeps shoeing, a supplement is not going to help.
I do this. I don't keep his front feet shod with shoes and pads because they aren't "tough" enough. He's got chronic lamenitis in one foot and has been working to overcome a lameness and it's made a huge, wonderful difference in him. He doesn't need shoes in the back at this point in time so I leave them barefoot.

The point is there are all kinds of reasons to shoe the front and not the back!
     
    06-10-2010, 12:31 AM
  #13
Foal
Where I live, we take the shoes off all horses during the summer, as that is their rest period. While barefoot, they spend most of the time in the stable, get an hour or two or turnout a day, perhaps go in the walker for 30 minutes as well. I don't think there is any rule against going barefoot while fully stabled, as long as the horse gets some form of exercise everyday. Still, my advice is to use a hoof hardener and get your farrier to glue on rubber shoes, which will help prevent further damage, and protect your horse's feet while they grow. They also add that extra bit of cushioning to relieve any soreness he may be feeling.
     
    06-10-2010, 01:49 AM
  #14
Trained
Hi, haven't read all replies, so sorry if I repeat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllComeALopin    
I am so disappointed. My farrier spend an HOUR on that one foot. When Pj through the left front he ‘chipped’ so much hoof away that his hoof is a bit too short and of course tender and sore. Now he has done the same thing to the right foot… thus he is ouchy and miserable on both front feet.
What on earth was your farrier doing for an hour on one foot?? Casting it as well?? As you no doubt learned at Pete Ramey's clinic(don't know about KC), unhealthy, weak feet tend to get unhealthier in shoes, so yes, I'd be inclined to keep him unshod. I'm not against shoes on healthy feet *necessarily* tho. Pete would have also pointed out the need for the horse to exercise comfortably in order to use - & therefore develop his feet correctly. Boots or Vettec Sole Guard or such are generally appropriate for this. Depending on many factors(which Pete also would have pointed out) the state of his feet, his management & amount of work, etc, etc, you might find he needs boots or such for quite some time, for little time, or always on certain surfaces.

Quote:
Its making me miserable. I am TRYING to do the right thing, I trust my farrier, but obviously it isn’t working. Another farrier wouldn't even touch him and told me Pj just has crappy feet, he won't keep a shoe on and good luck going barefoot .
Hmm, some of them are so helpful, huh?? Keep learning all you can about the principles & factors that effect hoof health. It's obvious you are doing your best atm, and based on what you've so far learned, you may have good reason to trust your farrier, but blind trust without understanding is not helpful. That it's obviously not working, your farrier takes an hour per foot, and that he keeps just shoeing feet that won't hold them(or the manner he shoes means they get pulled off) gives me reason to doubt how 'trustworthy' he is. Tho of course, you may have more reasons to trust him.

Quote:
He is on a hoof supplement and I use hoof oil every day
Good that he's supplemented. I personally think it's a good idea to do at least a basic diet analysis before choosing supplements, and use a service/program such as FeedXL.com in order to ensure he's getting what he needs - which is often not what supps tell you on the packaging unfortunately! What is his diet like? Starchy/sugary feed is one big culprit of 'crappy feet'.

Hoof oil is not good for feet. It prevents the hooves from being porous. Likewise, I wouldn't advise turps, durasole, keretex, etc, etc. There are negatives to their use and very little positives - he needs to grow *thicker* soles, not harder.

Quote:
He cannot wear the boots during tunrout. They will wear the top of his hoof and make him even more uncomfortable to I would rather go without them.
If he is lame when turned out, Vettec that I mentioned may be a better option, but hopefully boots such as easyboots with gaiters shouldn't rub him and booting for turnout will only be short term.

Quote:
If I get pictures of his feet tomorrow can someone give me some barefoot advice? What hoof angles (for photos) would you like to see?
Yep, definitely. Clean(you'd be surprised...) feet on level-ish surface, squarely front- & side-on from at or near ground level, and a variety of angles of sole/heel, to get an idea of balance, depth, etc.

Quote:
Also he has little fiber-ish things poking out of his feet…
At the 'white line'? I imagine you mean the laminae, which is separated. Which means he may be foundered, likely at least long-term laminitic - but that's only an educated guess based on a very little info.

Quote:
He have little halter horse feet... like the kind prone to navicular...eventually. I was told the best way to prevent this is to go bare foot... I really don't know the truth to that.
Can only give you my opinion & experience there, and advise again you do all the research you can to make an informed decision. I've been a hcp for 10 years & rehabbed many sick hooves, inc. 'navicular'. As said above, *generally*(there are exceptions), I believe sick feet are far better unshod. That is not to say bare tho, as comfort is a big factor to getting feet healthy.
Quote:
barefoot and hopefully this will help prevent navicular and make his feet healthy and happy... but I really have no idea if that's even possible .
Really?? You have no idea, even after doing clinics with Pete & KC? Perhaps you mean you're (healthily) skeptical about it? Again, IMO Pete Ramey is a good one to follow - can't speak personally for KC - but again, I also advise you just do more homework, consider the principles & pros & cons of different approaches & come to your own informed decision.
     
    06-10-2010, 09:13 AM
  #15
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Really?? You have no idea, even after doing clinics with Pete & KC? Perhaps you mean you're (healthily) skeptical about it? Again, IMO Pete Ramey is a good one to follow - can't speak personally for KC - but again, I also advise you just do more homework, consider the principles & pros & cons of different approaches & come to your own informed decision.
I will get the photos today (it rained all day yesturday).

I have no idea what the fibers are, I hope you will be able to tell me! I hope its nothing serious, but if it is I would likely get a pro in to help me deal with it.
I'm looking into barefoot trimmers in my area, but most are self-taught or are through a traditional farrier school. Or they are lazy and just don't take the time to do it right!

He is also the only horse that gets done (the owner takes her horses to an amish guy becuase they are drafts) so not many people are happy about traveling for on horse.

Thanks for all your help too! Before I forget!

My lack of faith in going barefoot is only becuase I feel I have very little foot to work with.

I should mention he is one of those grows all heel and no toe types!

I have done my own horses before, and I always did them often becuase I HATE nipping the hoof, I'd rather just file it every so many days. Its a lot easier for me. But all the feet I ever worked with (including a few lesson horses at the barn) we all pretty big and healthy. There was a 20 year old morgan with a pretty good crack, but alteast he would grow enough hoof to work with. But we took care of him, no shoes involved.

Perhaps I can keep him in the soft arena until he has grown enough hoof to properly trim and round? I think once his feet get longer he won't be as ouchy... I am 99% sure most of his lameness is due to his foot being so short because even with a shoe on he as tender.

I'm NOT really worried about his feet getting tougher at this point, that's later down the line... becuase to me tougher means being able to do things like walk on rocks without being gimpy... it would be nice but is not top on my list of goals.

I'm concerned about his feet chipping away to nothing... becuase that is what is happening right now.

Maybe once I get pictures you can see and understand what I'm looking at. I think I'm pretty good at know whats going on, I listen to the vet and farrier having always worked at a boarding barn and being incharge of holding the horse and relaying messages to owners I've heard and seen a lot...
BUT this is my personal horse, whom I love dearly and would like to see lookin better.

Ok, going to go get pictures, I will be back in two hours or so becuase you just can go and get pictures without fussing over them a little .
     
    06-10-2010, 09:17 AM
  #16
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Again, IMO Pete Ramey is a good one to follow - can't speak personally for KC - but again, I also advise you just do more homework, consider the principles & pros & cons of different approaches & come to your own informed decision.
KC does basically the same thing, just ads more 'technical' talk... Pete seems down to earth and tells it in an easy outright way!
KC also pushes ONLY using a file... I don't think he uses anything else, or didnt when I saw him... which is fine if you have all day and don't mind getting a new file for every horse. just kiddin...

I have one of Pete's books (not sure how many are out there) its super nice to have becuase there are a TONE of pictures with all the info so I can SEE what I want my end product to look like. This helped me a lot in the beginning when I first started to work on feet.
     
    06-10-2010, 09:46 AM
  #17
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by IllComeALopin    
KC does basically the same thing, just ads more 'technical' talk... Pete seems down to earth and tells it in an easy outright way!
KC also pushes ONLY using a file... I don't think he uses anything else, or didnt when I saw him... which is fine if you have all day and don't mind getting a new file for every horse. just kiddin...

I have one of Pete's books (not sure how many are out there) its super nice to have becuase there are a TONE of pictures with all the info so I can SEE what I want my end product to look like. This helped me a lot in the beginning when I first started to work on feet.
That book is great - it's better when used in conjunction with his DVD series "Under the Horse". They aren't cheap but very, very worth investing the money for the DVD set, it is absolutely cram-packed with information, diagrams, trimming footage and special cases.

Your horse will NOT wear hoof off faster than he can grow it. From the sounds of it, barefoot is what is needed to correct the problems in his feet. And examination of his diet might be in order as well.

If your boots rub his coronet bands when on, then they are not fitting him correctly. Maybe get your farrier or someone else to help you correctly fit boots to him - they help a lot with the transition and could speed his recovery.

Be patient, and good luck! You'll get his feet in shape.
     
    06-10-2010, 10:48 AM
  #18
Started
IllComeAlopin, I see you are in PA. I have relatives and friends there. :)

Let me assure you that you can take this horse barefoot. It takes up to a year to grow a whole new hoofwall. So, continue to work on rasping any flares off and help the heels come down. It's very possible your horse has weak heel cushions(that is not the technical name lol). That may be one reason for the tender feet. Does he land toe first? This can be an indication. I may not get to see the pics as I am going out of town tomorrow so I'm just going with what you have said so far.. The fiber you see is stretched white line material(again not the technical word). More than likely this area has stretched white line and thus flaring. Do not trim any sole off. Callous is very important to building a tough hoof. Often farriers remove too much of that when they shoe. I believe you will be amazed at the hooves in a few months. Give this horse time and use boots to ride. Put extra padding in when you ride if needed. I have to do that with some of mine on my crappy rock roads here.

Do continue with the Horseshoers Secret as it is a good one. Dump the hoof conditioner. I don't think they are worth the time of day.

I wish you were near me in KS as I have a great trimmer.
     
    06-10-2010, 12:20 PM
  #19
Banned
OK, I will have the photos up in a few but I just want to say;

I WILL be buying the DVD set, I didn't even really realize he had one out! I think the time I saw him he didn't... however looking at his website it seems he has updated a LOT since I seen him.

I will dump the hoof conditioner.

I will be looking into a barefoot person to help me along, even though I'd eventually love to just do it myself simply becuase I know I can, and I don't mind doing it often.

I will look into testing his diet, however we are moving to a new boarding barn next weekend... I know they get hay from a few different people... so I guess I might have to test the hay often?

In the photos you will see my horse is a bit thin, to me, but as I said I am moving him next weekend. He is getting chased around a lot and I think his buddy is eating the hay faster than Pj (my horse) can.
I also want the indoor so I make sure he keeps moving even in bad weather... plus the care here is a little more personal and I am going to clean stalls so I will be there all day to make sure he is doing well.

So.. the photos will be up in a few!
     
    06-10-2010, 12:27 PM
  #20
Banned
Well... I tryed my best!

The whole horse...
Oh and excuse the dirt it was wet mud and it just would not come off...




     

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