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Barefoot vs shod

This is a discussion on Barefoot vs shod within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Barefoot horses vs shod horses
  • Shod horses versus barefoot

 
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    12-13-2009, 06:12 PM
  #31
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by irydehorses4lyfe    
check out Joe Camp's website, Barefoot Horse Horse hoof care "The very best horse book ever: Best Seller The Soul of a Horse" Joe Camp best selling author and read his books. Joe is very knowledgble about this topic.
I read that book yesterday, that was most of my day yesterday, just reading that book. I would reccomend it. It was a very good read.
     
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    12-13-2009, 06:15 PM
  #32
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfreedom    
I read that book yesterday, that was most of my day yesterday, just reading that book. I would reccomend it. It was a very good read.
I agree. I'm looking to buy it once I have the time to hunt it down in stores. I checked it out from our library and read it twice in 3 weeks and learned even more from the book the second time around.
     
    12-13-2009, 08:11 PM
  #33
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfreedom    
Truth is that shoes were invented because the horses were stalled all day and night standing in their own muck/ammonia while living behind castle walls. That ammonia tore the hoof apart so, voila, shoes.
.
they were invented because war horses were having problems, not because of poor stabling but because of excess wear. There are many books on the horse shoe , when it was beleive to have been invented and why and nothing has to do with stabling and everything to do with wear.
Shoes have been dated back to 1500 BC and invented by the Egyptions or Persians
     
    12-13-2009, 08:23 PM
  #34
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfreedom    

I thought I read too, that a barefoot horse has more grip than a shoe on ice?
.
So you have not real experience of your own?? Well I have half a century of running ice, personal experince and barefoot is no where near on par with a properly shod horse.
I also looked after 25 horses, roughly half shod and half barefoot and putting them out morning and bring them in nights really showed the difference on glare ice. I also had a stud that I lead in and out and watching him floundering trying to get into the field across the ice driveway taught you quickly what a barefoot horse can do on ice.
Ice that to you is too glare to walk on, skating rink ice but BUT on the side of hill really teaches you what a properly shod horse can do. They trot with confidence and sure footedness over the glarest of ice without a slip.
I probably put about 800 miles a winter over ice with never a slip.
No barefoot doesn't begin to match a properly shod horse on ice.
     
    12-13-2009, 09:06 PM
  #35
Trained
Well, my mare, Ricci, has very tender feet. Believe it or not, but she is simply un-workable if she isn't shod. Yes, I pull her shoes in the winter, because I believe it's healthier for the hoof to have that "alone" time. And yes, I can still ride her when she is barefoot, but it's not as often or as hard as the times she is shod. And still, you should see the chips she gets in her feet over the winter! I've tried to do it barefoot, but she limps every step and I have a hard time putting her through that.

My yearling, on the other hand, walks and trots on concrete and gravel no problem. I doubt she'll need shoes, and won't ever put them on her if I can help it.

Some horses NEED shoes, some horses don't. It's that simple.
     
    12-13-2009, 09:18 PM
  #36
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by chevysmum    
I know this is a touchy subject for some. My farrier said that my horse should do fine barefoot but not to take the shoes off until the fly season is over. He is strictly ridden in a ring, doing very light jumping. His paddock is fairly rocky with little grass. Any advice as to whether he will need time off, wear boots, any supplements to help with the transition? We took the back shoes off a year ago and he did great and has been in training 5 days a week since then. Any ideas?
What do you mean by "fairly rocky"? Can you post pictures of where he is going to be?
     
    12-13-2009, 10:22 PM
  #37
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiosDad    
they were invented because war horses were having problems, not because of poor stabling but because of excess wear. There are many books on the horse shoe , when it was beleive to have been invented and why and nothing has to do with stabling and everything to do with wear.
Shoes have been dated back to 1500 BC and invented by the Egyptions or Persians

Please teach me more. I went searching for incidences of horseshoes in 1500bc. It seems my knowledge is limited to only what I can find on the internet. I no longer have library access, but the library is limited too, that's why I prefer the internet. The only references to horseshoes I've read about were from the internet. And here's a few quotes that came from what I've read.

There is very little evidence of nailed-on shoes prior to AD 500 or 600, though there is speculation that the Celtic Gauls were the first to nail on metal horseshoes. The nailed iron horseshoe first appeared in the archaeological record in Europe about 5th century A.D. When a horseshoe, complete with nails, was found in the tomb of the Frankish King Childeric I at Tournai, Belgium. The earliest clear written record of iron horseshoes is a reference to "crescent figured irons and their nails" in AD 910.

And
Xenophon, a fourth century BC Greek cavalry commander, who wrote "naturally sound hooves get spoiled in most stalls," and included the instruction that their hooves should be toughened by putting a cobblestone area in their paddock,

I also recall that Pete Ramey who used to run a business of horse sight seeing used to have shod horses. He stated that he used the horses so much that he would have to reshoe em in like half the time. "I would need to watch him talking again to find the exact length of time. But I would need to find it first." And he was saying that in that short amount of time that the shoes were worn so thin that he just HAD to put on new shoes. And he stated he never believed in all the barefoot crap until he learned and experienced it. He stated that he didn't think they could manage the wear, because of how quickly the shoes wore out.

And that's all the evidence that I've learned so far. I'm always willing to learn too. The only way to learn is to become humble. And perhaps I'm not staying humble. Maybe I've felt I've learned all I can learn about shoes? Maybe I think there's a better alternative? I dunno. Humble me. Show me that I'm close minded and not willing to learn. Show me my errs. As far as all the knowledge I've come across from experienced people who have walked both sides of the tracks goes; barefoot has it's numerous benefits. And shod has nothing but shortcomeings. But again maybe I think I've found the best way and have become ignorant?

As far as ice goes. I've only read about barefoot horses being more sound on ice once. I've yet to find a second point of evidence from a second source. That's why I was asking too though, I've kinda assumed you dealt with lots of ice. Though I thought it was ice rinks for some reason. And nope I've never experienced it. Not like that. But if it's all about the horses health like some have stated then why not boots? Wouldn't it be better for em when they were going to work on ice, simply because of hoof function, to be able to be in boots? Now if they are going to stand on a hillside of ice all day and night I totally understand the point of shoes. Though nevertheless I wouldn't agree with standing em on ice 24/7 on a hillside. But still I can understand it. Yet if they only come in contact with the ice on occasions when one is playing with em, and if it's about horse health I can only suggest learning about hoof function and hoof boots with studs. I've only heard good things about em.



And for anyone considering taking their horses barefoot. It will most likely take time for the horse to develop a proper hoof. It will take time to build adequate sole thickness. It will take time for the hoof wall to grow down attached fully to the coffin bone. It will take time and patience. Hoof function ensures that the horse will have a smooth transition. One cannot simply put on a barefoot trim because that's the "model" and expect their horse to do well. It all needs to be done slowly so the horse will have heel first landings. If one has a barefoot trim and the horse is toe walking then it's likely that too much was done too soon. Heel first landings are what are required. And if you compromise that for trimming a hoof that looks like the "model" then you sacrafice any progress. One will only be going backwards by trying to go forward too fast. It takes time and knowledge. And the will to feed a proper diet, and provide an adequate enviroment are all a part of it. One without the other is like a car without an engine. Sure the car is pretty and useful, but it aint going to go no where without it's horsepower. There is much to learn about proper barefoot horses. It's more than just a trim that follows a "model". It's more like a way of careing for the horse.
     
    12-14-2009, 01:19 AM
  #38
Trained
A PROPERLY shod hoof functions properly. You can trap a hoof with a shoe and inhibit the function but if done correctly the shoe only protects the hoof it doesn't inhibit it.

TotalFreedom- You have obviously done a lot of research about the pro's of barefoot horses but have you researched the con's? Have you done any research regarding properly shod hoof function and the pro's of shoeing? There are two side to every question and both need to be examined. I think absolute statements are absolutely wrong. I ride my horses barefoot in the winter often and into the spring but when I start to need to depend on them all day or they get sore then they must be shod. I have not the time nor the resources to change thier diet the way it must be changed to facilitate barefoot trimming.
     
    12-14-2009, 07:07 AM
  #39
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfreedom    
Please teach me more. I went searching for incidences of horseshoes in 1500bc. .
I am not going to go into it but one of my text books
The Principles of Horseshoeing II by Dr. Doug Butler goes into more depth

Just skimming .
A coin found at Tarentum dated 300BC in the british museum shows a horse being shod.
China have be credited with using the iron shoe and nials for more then 2000 years.
Shoes found can be dated to the 5th or 6th century BC
The first blacksmith in the bible was named Tubal-cain as recorded in Genesis Chapter 4, verse 22

Genghis Khan in the 12th century using a unique rawhide cup fit over the hoof accounted for his great mobility of his Mongolian striking force.
I know this is not shoing but he saw the need to protect a horses foot.

Anyway it goes on and on.

And as Kevin stated properly shod a horse has no problems
My personal mount has great feet, hard black and good growth and cup and I ride barefoot about 1/2 the time without a problem but come certain seasons, certain footing conditions and the shoes have to go one.
One winter we put down 2 horses that wiped out on ice and broke a shoulder. 2 horse, both barefoot.

Yes I have extensive experience of running ice.
While boots might seem a good alternative my guys are out every day and they need traction everyday as long as the winter lasts and putting boots on every morning and pulling them off every night is just not possible.
     
    12-14-2009, 07:17 AM
  #40
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfreedom    
And that's all the evidence that I've learned so far. I'm always willing to learn too. The only way to learn is to become humble. And perhaps I'm not staying humble. Maybe I've felt I've learned all I can learn about shoes? Maybe I think there's a better alternative? I dunno. Humble me. Show me that I'm close minded and not willing to learn. Show me my errs. As far as all the knowledge I've come across from experienced people who have walked both sides of the tracks goes; barefoot has it's numerous benefits. And shod has nothing but shortcomeings. But again maybe I think I've found the best way and have become ignorant?

.
Just from reading your posts shows that you are close minded when it comes to shoes.
Nothing I can say was convince you otherwise.
No one can convince me expect experience.
Experince I have alot of and when the time is right I pull the shoes and when the time is right they go back on.
I do all my own shoing so for me I can ride one day without shoes and the next run the same trail with the same conditions and see the difference for myself and there are times for protecting the foot for both wear and traction.
I have put on 70-80 miles a week for week after week over hard packed gravel roads, roads that destroy iron shoes in weeks and I know that barefoot feet just can not stand the wear.
I have seen feet wore down to bloody stumps and it hurts to see an abused horse like that.

So again there is nothing I can say to someone who will never shoe their horse no matter what.
Good luck

Totalfreedom I would love to know your age. You remind me of trying to tell someone that there is no Santa Claus, no Easter bunny, No Tooth farrier.
Lots of books talk about them and we all beleive what we read in books.
     

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