diagnosed with.....Navicular :( - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 23 Old 05-21-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by twogeldings View Post
As for underrun heels, don't you need shoes to correct this? Just curious, but I thought there was a shoe that made up for lack of heel and made the horse more comfortable until the heel (correct me if I'm wrong) grew back.
actually no you don't HAVE to have shoes to fix it, normally with underrun heels you also have toes that are too long and pulled forward so as you back the toe up and trim the heel where it needs to be they balance each other on SOME horses... depends on how bad it is

I have been called the NSC Nazi more then once ... I hate traditional feed methods of loading our horses up on grains and junk food :)
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-21-2009, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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thank you for all of your replies and suggestions. I know that he does have navicular from the x-rays, but what im not sure of is that he has absolutly no heel pain at all. Only sole pain, which is possibly from tender soles. So im not sure if he is lame from tender soles or the navicular changes.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-21-2009, 07:49 PM
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You can reverse shod and see if that works. I do know of a experimental treatment. But its about 6,000.

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post #14 of 23 Old 05-22-2009, 10:14 AM
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Reverse shod isn't going to help long term. Sometimes it makes the horse less painful, but causes more damage.

If your horse is doing well barefoot, I'd highly recommend a hoof boot, and put pads in them for riding. Not the same as plastic shoeing pads, but foam inserts like you put in your own shoes. They really help with sole discomfort.
Sometimes they CAN have bone changes that don't cause lameness once the hoof balance is fixed, and that could be what you saw on the x-ray, is old damage to the bone that will never go away,from when you said his feet were contracted and oval with the shoes. Usually, the navicular bone causes pain in motion as the tendon rubs over it, not from hoof testers on the sole. Could be he just doesn't have super thick sole or even could have a bruise, coincidentally. It doesn't make sense that he would be moving sound if the bone damage is really causing an issue. I would get a 2nd opinion, if you can afford it, and stick to your guns about barefoot, I see severe cases of diagnosed nav. Disease turn around and regain most/all of their usefullness once the foot is balanced and the horse can use the back of his foot. The internal damage, as I said, never goes away, but they can be comfortable. Whereas with shoeing techniques that treat symptoms, almost always contribute to the deterioration of the bone and tendon, and ultimately shorten the horse's work life.
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-22-2009, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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from what I understand and have read about navicular is that horses with it, tend to almost always land toe first. Which is what cotton dosent do, he lands heel first. For hoof boots, do I need to put foam inserts in it to ride, or can I ride w/o the inserts? The hoof boots is going to be my first try..then a good barefoot trimmer who I just found, then since I don't want shoes on him i'll go from there. Thanks everybody!
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post #16 of 23 Old 05-22-2009, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by barefoothooves View Post
Whereas with shoeing techniques that treat symptoms, almost always contribute to the deterioration of the bone and tendon, and ultimately shorten the horse's work life.
Why do barefoot people think that shoes are just treating the sympthons?? That is so NOT true... a properly applied shoe to a proper trim will help NOW with pain instead fo the horse walking in pain while the hoof tries to grow properly...

The problem with most barefoot people is they see everything barefoot adn fail to see that many times shoes CAN AND DO speed up the healing process while elimanating pain in the process

I have been called the NSC Nazi more then once ... I hate traditional feed methods of loading our horses up on grains and junk food :)
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-22-2009, 05:33 PM
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Peggy I think its really down to a personal preference of what they like their horses to have. Just as some feed sweet feed and other don't. It's all personal preference. No need to go after someone because of what they said.

I would get a second opinion even if you saw navicular on the x-rays. I'd rather have 2 vets confirm something that just believe the one vet (who sounded a little wacko) Even though it's going to cost you more money to get a second vet out, it may save you lots in the future.

If he likes being barefoot, I'd continue with that until HE tells you he's no longer comfortable and then go look into options (whether it be shoes, staying barefoot or boots)

My app gelding was lame and the vet thought he had navicular, but when he took the x-rays he had no rotation or sinking and therefore ruled it out. The farrier and vet consulted on that best possible choice for Gem. We let them give us options and then we decided.
He was barefoot, but we decided to put shoes on him. There was an immediate difference in his gait and demeanor. (Though besides the lameness there were a few other things going on with his hooves) We had wanted to stay barefoot for Gem's sake, but seeing how happy he is right now makes up for it all.
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-23-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twogeldings View Post
As for underrun heels, don't you need shoes to correct this? Just curious, but I thought there was a shoe that made up for lack of heel and made the horse more comfortable until the heel (correct me if I'm wrong) grew back.
No, you do not have to shoe to correct underrun heels. The heel is growing, but it's growing at the wrong angle. Lowering the heel/basically rasping it to get the heel purchase back where it belongs and raspinging the toe back/removing the excess wall at the toe will help bring the hoof back to normal growth.

Oops, I see this has been said already. Sorry for a repeat.


Last edited by Appyt; 05-23-2009 at 09:24 AM.
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post #19 of 23 Old 05-23-2009, 07:00 PM
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I agree with getting a second opinion just to verify that he does have navicular. Even vets make mistakes sometimes. If you are 100% sure that it is navicular, then find a farrier that has lots of experience and knowledge of dealing with a navicular horse (whether barefoot or shoes). You need to think about what is best for the horse. Since he does have sole pain, shoes may help alleviate some of the pain but I am not a farrier so I don't know for sure. I do know that my horse Flash was diagnosed with navicular by 3 different vets as a 5 year old (caused by long-term improper shoeing by his previous owner) and once Dad got him balanced (with shoes) he stayed 95% sound until he got old and developed arthritis in his fetlocks and knees. He was finally retired at 23 a couple of years ago. He still runs and has fun in the pasture though.

Don't let yourself get down, navicular is not a death sentence for a horse anymore. It is all about finding something that works for him and keeps him comfortable and sound. Barefoot is not always a cure all and neither is shoeing. Sometimes it takes a combination of both in the proper way to help.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #20 of 23 Old 05-23-2009, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by barefoothooves View Post
Reverse shod isn't going to help long term. Sometimes it makes the horse less painful, but causes more damage.
You stated that as a fact. It is not a fact it is an opinion or theory. Alot of vets reccomend this for navicular. But I respect your opinion.

If your horse is doing well barefoot, I'd highly recommend a hoof boot, and put pads in them for riding. Not the same as plastic shoeing pads, but foam inserts like you put in your own shoes. They really help with sole discomfort.
Sometimes they CAN have bone changes that don't cause lameness once the hoof balance is fixed, and that could be what you saw on the x-ray, is old damage to the bone that will never go away,from when you said his feet were contracted and oval with the shoes. Usually, the navicular bone causes pain in motion as the tendon rubs over it, not from hoof testers on the sole. Could be he just doesn't have super thick sole or even could have a bruise, coincidentally. It doesn't make sense that he would be moving sound if the bone damage is really causing an issue. I would get a 2nd opinion, if you can afford it, and stick to your guns about barefoot, I see severe cases of diagnosed nav. Disease turn around and regain most/all of their usefullness once the foot is balanced and the horse can use the back of his foot. The internal damage, as I said, never goes away, but they can be comfortable. Whereas with shoeing techniques that treat symptoms, almost always contribute to the deterioration of the bone and tendon, and ultimately shorten the horse's work life.
If a horse can go barefoot it is better for the hoof no doubt. But alot of horses can not go without shoes. I had my horse without shoes for about 12 monthes? As training increased and differing conditions it became clear she needed shoes. When she got shoes she was so much happier moved better. Wasn't afraid to walk on gravel or any kind of hard surface.


And this is not barefoot vs. shoes thread this is about this particular horse.
If anybody would like to debate this issue you could create a new thread! Which I'm sure alot people would comment on.



Last edited by Trissacar; 05-23-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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