Double dosing dewormers? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:12 PM
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AB .... what u r saying flies in the face of ALL RESEARCH DONE ON WORM RESISTANCE. In other words, You ARE WRONG.

I urge you to read up on the subject, and I urge all forum members to do so also....and I also urge them NOT to believe YOU over the tons of articles done by vets and researchers that say the opposite of what you, an anonymous persona, are saying.

And in truth, you are illogical in thinking UNDERUSE causes resistance. This has not proven true for bacteria (well known that overuse of antibiotics has caused superbugs like MRSA), viruses, or worms....

Your logic is flawed, and you are grossly uninformed.

again, i urge ALL MEMBERS to google worm resistance and read how overuse is causing it.

AND TALK TO YOUR VET. Most vets these days are knowledgeable about the worm resistance and what is causing it.....and can suggest a worming regimen for your horse IF YOUR HORSE NEEDS IT.

Last edited by Beauseant; 07-07-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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post #22 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:16 PM
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Beau, screaming at us is not necessary.

Stop screaming and read.

I did not say under USING. I said under DOSING.

I am correct. If you would read what I wrote you understand.

I have done research. I even attending a clinic my vet gave on deworming.

Double dosing is not an issue (but again, discuss this with your vet) with most deworming products. Some parasite problems require that high dosage all at once to take care of the problem.
And yes, some parasite problems require the high dosage with another deworming a relative short time later on.

No one here is saying that everyone should do this. We are just saying your screaming post about how this is deadly is incorrect.
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post #23 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:20 PM
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I urge you to research the difference between over-using (too frequent applications) and over-dosing (too much at once) so you can correctly understand all this scientific fact you are touting and use your arguments in a more valid perspective.

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post #24 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
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Actually Beau, under dosing does cause resistance, and it's well documented. It's as bad for the horse as over dosing, which is not the same thing as a Power Pack or double dosing.

Taking antibiotics for less than the recommended time or dosage can and does cause a resurgence of the bacteria, because you've just given it a way to build up an immunity. It works the same for under dosing of dewormer.

Yes, the six or eight times a year deworming that used to be recommended has been amended to taking fecal counts and determining by that whether or not a horse needs to be dewormed and for which specific parasites.

Over dosing and double dosing are simply not the same thing, and to presume the rest of us are ignorant of the dangers of over or under dosing our horses is rather presumptuous of you.

You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!
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post #25 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:25 PM
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The same way that antibiotic resistance came
about: over-use, and indiscriminate use, of drugs. By de-worming
every horse every 8 weeks regardless of need, we selected for the
survival of parasites that have genes for resistance against those
drugs. With all the sensitive parasites being killed every 8 weeks,
the resistant parasites quickly took over

Interesting article, written by vets from New Bolton, an accredited and highly respected vet clinic here in PA.....

Known as the hospital where Barbaro was taken.

The vets there state that this resistance came about by overuse and misuse of wormers.

I'd be inclined to believe them over forum member AB...

This article, and many others I've read actually state that underdosing is useful in that the horse develops resistance to the worms from continued low level exposure. Only high shedders (eggs) should be treated with wormers, low shedders need no treatement.

It's the latest cutting edge view of vets on this issue.

OVERUSE and OVERDOSING cause resistance.

Perhaps shouting is necessary so that those still clinging to the "old way of doing things" don't mess things up for all of us.

Last edited by kitten_Val; 07-07-2011 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Rudeness in shouting
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post #26 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:26 PM
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They are saying the same thing I am.

So feel free to believe them.

Do you not know the difference between use and dosing? Indy gave you the definitions.

PS, you do not need to yell at us. You yelling does not make you more right.
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post #27 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:28 PM
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You apparently have reading comprehension fail, since that article is telling you the EXACT SAME THING all of us have been saying.

You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!
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post #28 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:29 PM
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This is getting kind of funny.

You are working yourself into a frenzy arguing a completely separate point to what is being said here, and a point none of us are disagreeing with.

Certainly dosing your horse 8 times a year is a bad idea and OVERUSE. It is not however an OVERDOSE. And overdose would be giving the amount of those 8 times a year wormings, all at once.

As SR said, a double dose is not the same thing as an overdose. And neither of the two are the same thing as OVERUSE that you are citing in all your articles.

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post #29 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:32 PM
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What I find most funny about Beau's screaming and yelling that I do not know what I am talking about is that my first post is quoted below (complete with bad spelling).

Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind View Post
Deworming practices have changed quite a bit in recent years. With the amount of resistence that the darn parasites has developed and new deworming products not being researched it is better to not just randomly deworm like we used to do.

(Though it does sound like your horse is due with those symptoms.)

It might be best to ask your vet what the deworming protocol is for your area now.
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post #30 of 67 Old 07-07-2011, 01:37 PM
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veterinarian should be involved in de-worming decisions. The first
step is to identify which horses are shedding the most worm eggs.
Each horse has a different level of natural immunity against
intestinal worms, which can’t be determined just by looking at
them. Your veterinarian can run a fecal (manure) test to identify

which animals are the
high-shedders of worm eggs; these 20% of

horses cause 80% of pasture contamination.

High-shedders should

be de-wormed frequently, sometimes as often as once a month,

low- and medium-shedders can be de-wormed as rarely as

twice a year. Next, rotating de-wormers must be stopped. Rapid
rotation is the fastest way to create multi-drug resistance as the
worms are exposed to many drugs over a short period of time,
allowing only the “super-worms” to survive. A slow rotation
program, where drugs are changed only once a year, is preferable.
Fecal egg tests should be repeated on a few of the horses 2 weeks
after administering a de-wormer for the first time to ensure the
product is effective against the worms on the farm. All horses on the
farm should be on the same program: it only takes one horse not
being treated appropriately to contaminate a whole pasture.
Reduce reliance on de-worming drugs and control your parasites
naturally. If manure is removed from the pasture every 3-4 days,
the eggs do not have time to hatch into the infectious larvae, and
the need for medications will fall dramatically. Chain harrowing
spreads worm eggs and larvae over the entire surface of a field and
should be avoided unless the weather is very hot and dry. Because

the larvae die in cold weather there is no need to de-worm during

From the above article.

And No, New Bolton is NOT saying the same thing speed racer and Indy and AB are saying.

In fact, New Bolton is saying MOST horses only need wormed once a year.

some, not at all. It depends on the level of shedding. And the vet community is now saying low level shedding may not need treated at a constant low level of worm infestation is beneficial as it makes the horse's immune system kick in to take care of the worms.
Not as one poster said, six doses in three days.

SIX doses in THREE days can indeed be deadly for some horses. That is a serious misuse of wormer.

My comprehension of this issue is in keeping with the current veterinary consensus. Overuse and overdosing of worming meds is causing worm resistance.

It's a fact, even if you three ...and whoever else wants to join your pack.....disagree. It is what it is.

As is this thread, which is NOT about underuse, it's about unusually high doses of wormer given to horses in an incredibly short time.

Last edited by kitten_Val; 07-07-2011 at 02:07 PM.
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