Enlarged pastern and lame. Is this high ringbone? Ideas please!
 
 

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Enlarged pastern and lame. Is this high ringbone? Ideas please!

This is a discussion on Enlarged pastern and lame. Is this high ringbone? Ideas please! within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Fluid filled lump on horses pastern above heel bulbs
  • Enlarged pastern horse

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  • 1 Post By Kayella
  • 1 Post By Trinity3205
  • 1 Post By CJ82Sky

 
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    10-29-2013, 01:18 PM
  #1
Foal
Enlarged pastern and lame. Is this high ringbone? Ideas please!

My mare has an enlarged pastern in her off-fore. It's been like this for some time: there's no heat or puffiness, it just looks bigger from behind. The hollow above the heel bulbs isn't there. She shows no pain on pressing the area, but recently I noticed a hard lump in the centre back of the pastern, quite small, but noticeable to the touch.
She is variably lame in that leg, and typically stands with her pastern upright and her heel slightly raised. Turning is obviously especially painful to her.
A bit of history about her: when I got her this summer she had very overgrown hooves with contracted heels and tiny frogs, and she was slightly unsound in the same foot. She has been barefoot for four months and has improved greatly with regular trimming to shorten her toes and eliminate the side wall flare. She foaled in late September and two weeks ago I had her shod; about the same time I noticed the bony lump in her pastern (nothing to do with the shoeing).
At first I put her unsoundness down to navicular syndrome, what with her contracted heels, and hoped that being barefoot would cure her, but that bony lump has me wondering about high articular ringbone....
The vet's coming to see her and do xrays, but I would be very appreciative of any ideas or input, at least so I can ask him the right questions
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2013-10-27 08.24.32-1.jpg (56.0 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg 2013-10-27 08.27.36-1.jpg (41.5 KB, 124 views)
     
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    10-29-2013, 04:28 PM
  #2
Yearling
She could definitely have something started. Those are VERY contracted heels. She could even have more than one problem, as she does look navicular prone.

Why is she being shod? Shoeing usually does not help the heels expand. Although I'm not sure what shoes you are using...

Can you get X rays of her hooves as well? At least than you can see how her cartilage is doing and navicular bone. If the cartilage ossifies the foot will never expand.
     
    10-30-2013, 08:46 AM
  #3
Foal
4horses, I tried shoeing her because I haven't seen any improvement in 4 months barefoot, and I just wanted to see if she could be more comfortable in shoes. But I'm not in the least impressed by the farrier: I'm sure those shoes are too big for her feet, they cover part of her frog. The only thing he said that I agreed with was about her contracted heels and that she could have navicular pain, but then when I pointed out the enlarged pastern he agreed and said that that's the navicular bone (in the pastern :-* )

The farrier also pointed out that her hooves don't grow straight down from her heels, rather they slant inwards. After reading your reply and thinking a bit, I had the revelation that perhaps that is a sign that her heels DID open out while she was barefoot, and if the base of the hoof doesn't open out too you'd end up with an inward-sloping wall. Am I right on this, anyone?

I've never come across references to ossification of the cartilages, 4horses. Which cartilages are you referring to?

I'm posting a photo of her hoof from below taken in August, you can see the shape better. Perhaps I should have posted this thread in hoof care, as in fact it seems more abou! Hooves than anything else.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2013-07-29 20.59.50-1.jpg (41.5 KB, 88 views)
     
    10-30-2013, 04:48 PM
  #4
Super Moderator
I think the Fetlock Joint is also enlarged and is contracted as well. I think the entire leg from the Fetlock Joint on down should be x-rayed. I would also bet that the Fetlock Joint has a very limited range of motion.

The hoof, as pictured below, shows that the toe is waaaay too far out in front of the frog. I would leave her barefoot and would round the toe back to the white line to facilitate a much quicker 'break-over'. I would not only roll the toe, but would roll the bottom of the hoof all around from the bottom -- NOT from the top with the hoof on a stand.
     
    10-30-2013, 06:29 PM
  #5
Green Broke
I agree that her toe is too long, and her heels too tall. If you bring back the toe and bring back the heels, she'll be much more comfortable. Attached is a picture showing where I THINK the toe needs to be. Definitely a lot that can be taken off to shorten breakover.

I would definitely get x-rays taken to see what's going on inside.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hoof.jpg (18.5 KB, 72 views)
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    11-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #6
Foal
Ok, so the vet has come and done xrays though I won't get the detailed results until Monday. So far he rang me and mentioned a lesion in the P2P3 articulation.... and a badly-placed farrier's nail that showed up too.
This morning she was really badly lame (who told her the vet was coming?!) and now I imagine it's because of that nail. Though is it possible for a nail to migrate?? It's over 3 weeks since she was shod and she hasn't been extra-lame until today
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    11-08-2013, 02:59 PM
  #7
Yearling
I think Xrays will shed alot of light. Probably sidebone also. I've got a guy with similar issues. Rubber shoes with a super duper short ELPO mapped toe/breakover helped him tremendously. He can be ridden again.
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    11-08-2013, 03:00 PM
  #8
Foal
Ok, so the vet has come and done xrays though I won't get the detailed results until Monday. So far he rang me and mentioned a lesion in the P2P3 articulation.... and a badly-placed farrier's nail that showed up too. :-!
This morning she was really badly lame (who told her the vet was coming?!) and now I imagine it's because of that nail. Though is it possible for a nail to migrate?? It's over 3 weeks since she was shod and she hasn't been extra-lame until today.
Kayella, I understand what you mean about bringing her toe back, but you say to bring her heels back too and I don't know exactly what you mean. I'm starting to realise that in my trimming, I've not been doing enough to her heels. Should I rasp them shorter? And what do I use as a guide for the correct heel height to aim for?
I'll get my hands on the rasp as soon as those horrible irons come off tomorrow.
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    11-08-2013, 03:36 PM
  #9
Started
Oh no that sounds awful, especially about the nail. Yes they can migrate/move/twist/shift some based on the horse's movement and it sounds like that may be what happened here. With all that she has going on, I'd see about getting in a specialized farrier and having him talk directly to your vet to ensure everyone is on the same page and your horse is getting the care needed to help her get sound again. In addition to the hoof trimming and angles, with some of the other swelling going on, it sounds like there may also be circulation issues. I've had stuff like that with my uber sensitive TB, and started using the Draper Therapies wraps which help (I actually read about them because they were using them on Boyd Martin's horse Neville Bardos in recovery) and they've made a huge difference. He doesn't stock up anymore and his feet aren't sore (he is shod all around as we show regularly) and I've started using them before and after shows and any residual swelling or fluid is gone when he's unwrapped. They are a bit pricey, but I am a HUGE fan of their stuff (just ordered the saddle pad to try, and a shirt for me :) ). Here's a link to their leg stuff for horses Draper Equine Therapy- Boots and Wraps - I use the recovery wraps, but I think on Neville they were using the polos.

Keep us posted on her progress, and hopefully between the farrier and the vet she will be sound soon!
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    11-21-2013, 01:30 AM
  #10
Foal
I've got the xrays and the vet says articular ringbone, ossification of the cartilage and collateral ligament damage. I started a thread about it in hoof care, if anyone wants to follow it up the xrays and more pics are here:
Spot the Nail! (my mare hates farriers)

I'm still no clearer about the infilling above the heel bulbs. The vet just said that it could be a consequence of the ringbone. But there's a hard lump in there! What is it?!
     

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