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  • What is a good high fat high fiber low starch horse feed
  • Low sugar crunch for horses

 
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    01-19-2010, 11:18 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Feed

Well there was a debate about sweet feed that I reading last week and it got me thinking about what I feed my horses. And as of right now we we mix to types of feed for them. But I will list the name and the ingredients and such. And I would like your guys opinion on what we feed them. And I am going to type exactly as the label is written so it may make it easy to understand.
First we have:

BARTLETT
Pasture horse 10
A Texturized Sweet Feed
For mature Idle Horses or Pleasure Horses
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, (min)............................................. ............ 10.00%
Crude Fat, (min)............................................. ................. 3.00%
Crude Fiber, (max) .................................................. ........ 10.00%
Calcium, (min) .................................................. .............. .75%
Calcium, (max)............................................. ................... 1.25%
Phosphorus, (min)............................................. ............... 0.6%
Copper, (min)............................................. ..................... 30ppm
Selenium, (min)............................................. ................... 0.35ppm
Zinc, (min)............................................. ......................... 100ppm
Vitamin A, (min)............................................. ....... 3,500 IU per pound
INGREDIENTS
Grain Products, Processed Grain by-products, forage products, roughage products, plant protein products, molasses products, calcium carbonate, salt, vegetable oil, yeast culture, hydrated sodium calcium aluminosilicate, copper sulfate, sodium selenite, potassium chloride, magnesium oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganous sulphate, zinc sulphate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamine E supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantethenate, pyriodoxine hydrochloride, choline chloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, d-Biotin.

And this is the grain we mix that with.
Circle M Feeds
All Grain
Horse Feeds
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, not less than............................................. 10 %
Crude Fat, not less than.............................................. .... 2.50%
Crude Fiber, not more than.............................................. . 8%
Ingredients
cut yellon corn, oats, barley, molasses, calcium carbonate, salt, propionic acid, ammonium hydroxide, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, mineral oil, ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

So if I use just one which is better?? Or is it good just to keep mixing them like I am? And just give me your opinions!
     
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    01-20-2010, 12:45 AM
  #2
Green Broke
I don't like feed that says "products" or by-products on the tags. It's too arbitrary and vague for me. The feed company could use any ingredient that fit in to that category. I want to know exactly what's in my horses' feed, not "roughly" what's in their feed...

The All Grain is fine, though it's very high in sugar and starch. I wouldn't feed much of it. It would be find to mix a little of it with a good vitamin supplement, to round out your horses' nutrition. Something like GrandVite or SmartVite Maintenence Grass (from SmartPak). The All Grain doesn't have much in the way of vitamins, so you'd need to add some. I would only need maybe 1/2 of a 3qt feed scoop a day of it though. Much more and you can end up with carb/sugar overload.
     
    01-20-2010, 02:14 AM
  #3
Yearling
If the horses are in a healthy weight and maintain their weight then they are fine. Mine are on a straight sweet feed and have been for many, many years. Everyone is healthy, happy, and sound. If it's working well for you, don't change it. Like my grandmother says: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
     
    01-20-2010, 03:51 AM
  #4
Weanling
Our horses have been on sweet feed for most of their lives, Cowboy Crunch. We recently switched to a mixed feed, pellet and some grain, which I don't know the name of. The switch was because of some sensitivity in our older rescues.
     
    01-20-2010, 09:57 AM
  #5
Green Broke
Think of sweet feed or almost any kind of processed feed like fast food or pre-packaged food for people (hot pockets, processed lunch meat, hamburger helper, or microwave dinners come to mind). Many people think eating that kind of food for 2 meals a day, every day, is just fine. Many people do just fine on this kind of diet for themselves. However, most of these people are not performance athletes .

Even "pleasure horses" that get ridden 1-2 times a week are more active than your average American. People who work out and/or play sports (competitively or for fun) generally eat better than what I described above. Most people who try to eat "healthy" eat fresh or frozen vegtables, lean meats, healthy carbs, and healthy fats for the majority of their meals.

We used to think that sweet feeds and grains were good for horses. Now, with more research on nutrition, we're learning that high starch grains and high sugar diets are NOT good for horses. So the argument "I've always feed sweet feed" (or something similar) is bogus. Sweet feed (and similar high starch diets) along with overbreeding and inbreeding is why we have horses today that have problems like insulin resistance, cushings, uclers, and so many cases of founder/laminitis. Based on one study, it's estimated that 85% of horses that regularly participate in shows (ANY show, or rodeo) have ulcers!

A healthy horse will have a soft, shiney coat year round. A (typical) healthy horse will not need extra supplements for hoof growth, coat condition, weight gain, or "calming". A healthy horse will not get thrush, rain rot, or other skin/hoof conditions often, even in less than ideal living condtions.

A horse's "healthy" diet should consist of 85-95% forage (pasture, hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, beet pulp, etc.) with very little in the way of starch or sugar. A little bit of whole oats, pelleted feed, or even sweet feed in a horse's diet is usually okay. But it should be in small amounts. No more than 2 lbs a day, and only if the horse is worked often enough to burn the energy and calories from that meal (3 days a week of work). Pregnant mares, breeding stallions, and senior horses may need extra as well.

That said, "extra" can come in the form of a healthy fiber, like hay pellets or beet pulp, or healthy fat. All of which is more easily diested by the horse.

Every hard keeper I've had or helped has suddenly turned into a "normal" keeper once we took away all of the grain and feeds, including senior feed, and put them on free choice (or nearly so) hay.

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is, there's horse nutrition "revolution" going on. Even the big feed companies are hopping on the bandwagon with new "low starch" or "safe starch" feeds, "lite" feeds, and "ration balancer" supplements, all of which conform to the new studies showing horses do better on high fiber, low sugar/starch diets.

Good reading:
MyHorse.com - Let Your Horse Eat Hay - There are three pages to this article.
Grass: It's What's For Dinner For Your Horse
The South Pasture Diet: Low Starch Feeding – Blue Seal Feeds Tech Talks
Horse Nutrition
http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine...Challenged.htm
Equine Nutrition for Health and Happiness

Here's a great site to help you build your horse's diet for the best results.
FeedXL Horse Nutrition
     
    01-20-2010, 09:44 PM
  #6
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
Think of sweet feed or almost any kind of processed feed like fast food or pre-packaged food for people (hot pockets, processed lunch meat, hamburger helper, or microwave dinners come to mind). Many people think eating that kind of food for 2 meals a day, every day, is just fine. Many people do just fine on this kind of diet for themselves. However, most of these people are not performance athletes .

Even "pleasure horses" that get ridden 1-2 times a week are more active than your average American. People who work out and/or play sports (competitively or for fun) generally eat better than what I described above. Most people who try to eat "healthy" eat fresh or frozen vegtables, lean meats, healthy carbs, and healthy fats for the majority of their meals.

We used to think that sweet feeds and grains were good for horses. Now, with more research on nutrition, we're learning that high starch grains and high sugar diets are NOT good for horses. So the argument "I've always feed sweet feed" (or something similar) is bogus. Sweet feed (and similar high starch diets) along with overbreeding and inbreeding is why we have horses today that have problems like insulin resistance, cushings, uclers, and so many cases of founder/laminitis. Based on one study, it's estimated that 85% of horses that regularly participate in shows (ANY show, or rodeo) have ulcers!

A healthy horse will have a soft, shiney coat year round. A (typical) healthy horse will not need extra supplements for hoof growth, coat condition, weight gain, or "calming". A healthy horse will not get thrush, rain rot, or other skin/hoof conditions often, even in less than ideal living condtions.

A horse's "healthy" diet should consist of 85-95% forage (pasture, hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, beet pulp, etc.) with very little in the way of starch or sugar. A little bit of whole oats, pelleted feed, or even sweet feed in a horse's diet is usually okay. But it should be in small amounts. No more than 2 lbs a day, and only if the horse is worked often enough to burn the energy and calories from that meal (3 days a week of work). Pregnant mares, breeding stallions, and senior horses may need extra as well.

That said, "extra" can come in the form of a healthy fiber, like hay pellets or beet pulp, or healthy fat. All of which is more easily diested by the horse.

Every hard keeper I've had or helped has suddenly turned into a "normal" keeper once we took away all of the grain and feeds, including senior feed, and put them on free choice (or nearly so) hay.

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is, there's horse nutrition "revolution" going on. Even the big feed companies are hopping on the bandwagon with new "low starch" or "safe starch" feeds, "lite" feeds, and "ration balancer" supplements, all of which conform to the new studies showing horses do better on high fiber, low sugar/starch diets.

Good reading:
MyHorse.com - Let Your Horse Eat Hay - There are three pages to this article.
Grass: It's What's For Dinner For Your Horse
The South Pasture Diet: Low Starch Feeding – Blue Seal Feeds Tech Talks
Horse Nutrition
http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine...Challenged.htm
Equine Nutrition for Health and Happiness

Here's a great site to help you build your horse's diet for the best results.
FeedXL Horse Nutrition

Pertaining to the bolded part, our horses don't get thrush, have nice shiny coats all year long, don't get rainrot(and in the summer they stay out in almost all conditions) and don't get any supplements. Annie get's a joint supplement, that's it. All of them get less that 5 lbs per day of feed, split into two feedings. Everyone is fat and healthy and happy. Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
    01-20-2010, 10:49 PM
  #7
Trained
Quote:
Pertaining to the bolded part, our horses don't get thrush, have nice shiny coats all year long, don't get rainrot(and in the summer they stay out in almost all conditions) and don't get any supplements. Annie get's a joint supplement, that's it. All of them get less that 5 lbs per day of feed, split into two feedings. Everyone is fat and healthy and happy. Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The problem is, you won't notice that it's broke until the damage is already done in most cases. Why gamble with the chances of your horses developing Insulin Resistance, Cushings Disease, Laminities, Ulcers etc. when it is possible not to?

The reason a lot of horses appear to live healthy lives being fed pounds upon pounds of sweet feed is because horses, on the whole, don't live long enough for the damage done to manifest.

As long as your horse is getting adequate forage, a small amount of sweet feed won't be the end of the world (Unless your horse ties up, is prone to laminitis, has EPSM, etc.). But it is NOT the best or healthiest feed choice out there.
     
    01-20-2010, 11:04 PM
  #8
Yearling
Okay so don't trust 30+ years of experience with zero cases of founder, lamnitis, IR, etc. They don't get pounds upon pounds of feed. 2.5 lbs of feed isn't all that much. And they get probabably 15 lbs each of forage per day, per horse. I'm not trying to get bitchy, but seriously. If we haven't had any problems, why in the world would we change what we're doing, potentially causing problems? Magic has been on the same amount of sweet feed and hay for the past 15 years. She's 17, had her since she was 2. She's a shetland, very prone to Cushing's. No signs of it, whatsoever. She's the happiest, pluckiest pony alive. And the vet approves of our diet, and he is the top vet in the area.
     
    01-20-2010, 11:09 PM
  #9
Foal
Ingredients:
Rice Bran, Whole Soybeans, Ground Corn, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Vegetable Oil, Brewers Yeast, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Fenugreek Seed, Artificial Flavor, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Sulfate, Manganous Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (a source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite
Crude Protein (Min.) 12.0%
Crude Fat (Min.) 10.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 6.0%
Moisture (Max.) 10.0%
Calcium (Min.) 2.0%
Calcium (Max.) 2.3%
Phosphorus (Min.) 1.2%
Magnesium (Min.) 0.8%

Sodium (Min.) 0.5%
Sodium (Max.) 0.6%
Copper (Min.) 150.0 PPM
Selenium (Min.) 0.9 PPM
Zinc (Min.) 500.0 PPM
Vitamin A (Min.) 22,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin D (Min.) 1,700 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (Min.) 450 IU/lb


Cost per day of feeding is less than $.80 a day.
In most cases I have looked at it is pennies difference in feeding a sweet feed with alot less risks. In some cases if you are feeding more than 5# of sweet feed it is actuall cheaper to feed.
     
    01-21-2010, 12:28 AM
  #10
Started
The fiber content on both those feeds is way to low.
     

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