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Feed for Weight Gain

9K views 50 replies 10 participants last post by  DebRVT 
#1 ·
My 4 year old mare needs to put on some weight!! I dewormed her early winter due to a high fecal egg count and again almost 2 weeks ago with a product that takes care of more parasites.
Have spoken to my vet and he wants to recheck fecal this week before doing anymore testing.
In the meantime to help her gain weight, beet pulp and oats have been suggested by a few people here.
Is my vet the best place to get info on how much and how often or is there a general rule based on age/weight?
I don't want to make her sick adding something new to her diet incorrectly.
Sorry to be asking for help again :(
 
#2 ·
Your vet is an excellent person to ask.

As a rule, when introducing a new feed, do it slowly. Begin with a small amount (a handful is good!) and work your way up to however much the horse needs. A handful at a time, until you see the results you want.

If your horse has an adverse reaction (as mine did to legumes in her feed) STOP the new feed and try something else!

Most horses do best with smaller meals more often (as do humans!) and this is particularly true for skinny ones. However, not everyone has this option, as I'm well aware as I don't have it myself! If you use a complete feed (as I do) there'll be feeding guides listed on the bag. Those guides are often for quite a large amount of feed but are a good place to start, especially as you are trying to add weight so feeding more calories than your horse is using is actually a good thing.

I'm in Australia so can't advise on specific products as I only know what products are available in my area. However, my mare looks awesome on a complete feed based on steam extruded barley. I've never had much success with beet pulp (my poor keeper actually dropped a significant amount of weight on it and its addition was the only change to his feed). Oats can be good but are quite 'fizzy' calories so can result in an excessively energetic horse.

Whatever you do, you don't want your horse gaining weight too quickly. It's not healthy and can result in fat deposits in problem areas such as around her heart and liver. Gradual weight gain should always be the goal as then it will go to the right places!

At four, she may simply be growing, and might not have any underlying reason for her weight problems. A growing horse will be harder to keep looking good. But it never hurts to exhaust all other possibilities. Do you have a photo?
 
#3 ·
Renew Gold. It's available almost anywhere, is not crazy expensive (going by how much you need not per bag. Some brands sell 30lb bags, some sell 50 lb bags) and is non GMO and organic. It is based on good fats (stabilized rice bran, coconut, etc) and my high metabolism 17hh OTTB only needs 3 oz/day, compared to the almost 3lbs he was eating before!! Wish I found it ages ago when I got the poor guy, he was crazy skinny. Now he's a solid 1300-some lbs and maintaining well with the Renew and lots of hay.
 
#4 ·
@blue eyed pony
I will call my vet about adding a complete feed to her diet!!
What kind of reaction did your horse have to the legumes?
I will get some pics of her to post on this thread when I see her tomorrow.
She came back from 90 days of training where she was rode everyday in October and I have mostly just been doing ground work with her since so I assume some of why she looks so thin could be due to muscle loss. However it is time for her to go back to work so I need to figure out how to get the weight back on her safely for sure. Thanks for your advice!
 
#10 ·
What kind of reaction did your horse have to the legumes?
All four legs and her face swelled up. The legumes (feed lupins, a common horse and livestock feed here) were the only significant change to her environment. It was a relatively minor reaction and her weight picked up massively, but allergies often worsen with repeated exposure, and I don't like the thought of risking my horse's health just to get her weight up when there's such a huge range of options.

Legume allergies aren't common in horses at all but they do happen sometimes. Most grain-free weight gain feeds are legume-based, so my girl is on a grain based one instead.
 
#5 ·
Horses are just like us, in that excess calories< ie,more then needed for daily activities, get stored- ie, horse gains weight
Calories come in two forms
Hot calories, ie grains, of which oats are the lowest in NSC, but still high, compared to other feeds. When you feed hot calories, you risk laminitis and colic, and mood highs, directly in proportion to amount fed

Cool calories come from fats, like canola oil and flax. They do not have the same associated risks. That is why many senior feeds are high fat, as those hroses need the calories,but often have a metabolic issue that precludes feeding hot calories
Many performance feeds also use cool calories, to avoid those sugar highs

Beetpulpis also excellent to put on weight, as it is higher in calories then forage, but is digested as a forage, so has none of the associated risks in feeding hot calories

It is so important to be able to read labels, know what your horse needs, and often those needs can be met without buying into some bagged horse feed
First place to start, is to look a the forage, which should be the main part of any horse's diet. Feed a more energy dense forage, free choice forage, and if that does not keep weight on a horse-then add more concentrated calories, with my choice being cool calories
 
#6 ·
@ThoroughbredBug
That is a huge difference in the amount of feed to keep weight on your boy!! I will see if it is available here and mention it to my vet.
My mare has free access to hay and seems to eat all day long. Mind you, they eat from a slow feeder so I guess it takes more time to consume the same amount of hay as she did before moving to this barn.
 
#7 ·
@Smilie
That is very interesting info - thank you for explaining!!
Part of the reason I was worried about just adding feed was that I have heard some stories of grains causing colic and other health concerns.
Cool calories sounds like a good plan and I will do some further research.
Can forage be tested easily for energy density?
 
#9 ·
Yes, but make sure it is sent to a lab that tests hay for horses in mind, and not just for cattle, as many of the labs testing hay for cattle, don't test for NSC, which is not a concern, unless you have a metabolic horse, like I do
Usually, a good protein level, around 14% goes hand in hand with good calorie level
of energy
Some oats is probably okay, but I would not be feeding high amount of oats to put on weight
 
#8 ·
First question:
What forage is she on, and how much?
You can't decide what to add, without knowing that baseline, and if the hay is of poor quality, or not enough, that is where you start+ALWAYS

Unless you only feed some bagged feed, which is not really ideal, then whatever that label reads, IS NOT THAT horses diet, nor even should it be the major part. It is a small part of that total diet , thus even if some bagged feed has a relatively high fat content, taken together with poor forage, might still not meet demands
You don't look at the label on an energy bar, and consider that your daily diet, do you?
 
#11 ·
@Smilie
She is on free choice round bale hay from a slow feeder. I have been giving her a moderate amount of Equalizer after her more serious workouts but I get your point with the energy bar comment.
I assume the hay is of good quality as the barn where I keep my horse is highly respected in this area, they have no financial concerns and all the other horses in the herd look great (including my mini horse).
I will certainly be doing some more research based on your suggestions and look into the testing for the hay if my barn owner doesn't already know the protein percentage.
 
#16 ·
I have been giving her a moderate amount of Equalizer after her more serious workouts but I get your point with the energy bar comment.
WHY?

Why do you only give this after a more serious workout?

Part of good horse nutrition is they eat the same meal components, same weight and amounts every day when fed so the body accustoms itself to those nutrients.
Feeding this today, something else tomorrow then skipping another day and haphazard feeding can make a difference in how your horse is able to metabolize their food stuffs.
Consistency....it is very much a needed part of feeding horses for daily thriving of the body.

My biggest question would be why do you think the horse needs this product only after a serious workout and not everyday? :shrug:
If her nutrition is lacking something it lacks it everyday not only after a hard workout....
If it is a "treat", then my thinking this is a vitamin & mineral supplement is wrong.
Even "treats" need some "consistently fed" if you feed them or they can also upset the delicate gut balance... :|
I too have a hard keeper and it is a constant vigil to make sure adequate food is presented, eaten and of proper nutritional values.
I offer you good luck.
:runninghorse2:.....
jmo...
 
#14 ·
It actually wasn't that scary, the swelling wasn't awful and not really a big deal but because it was directly related to the new feed we stopped giving it to her.

It took 3 or 4 days if I remember right, but I started with literally a handful and there's usually a minimum amount to trigger an allergy.
 
#13 ·
(I really should just write a document and paste it every time)

1. any change to diet should be done gradually as one feed is phased out while the other is phased in (less of one and more of the other).
2 do not feed grains if there is anyway to feed something better (i.e. low NSC). That also applies to the hay you feed (the better hays are higher in NSC).

Here's most of a post I put on another thread. I recommend that everyone who owns a horse should take a course on equine nutrition and one on the equine digestive system, but I realize that it's not always possible for everyone. Sadly it results in a lot people following very old and very flawed traditions that started centuries ago by people who did things out of convenience and with an ignorance of how equine digestive systems works or what their nutritional needs really are.
Remember that Secretariat was put down at 19 from laminitis. The result of a grain and top quality hay diet (loaded with NSC).

I wasn't going to get into this, but for the sake of the OP's knowledge and any who want to know.

First. For those who want to dig up some "expert" who says the grains are fine (mostly oats is their go-to grain). There are plenty of them. I've met some. One, a VMD, who worked for a feed company and spouted off all these "experts" who lectured and presented evidence that he used and claimed he'd rather go with what they said. Having said that he could not refute the other medical evidence which refuted is love affair with oats and had nothing to say when I pointed out that he would fit real well with the tobacco industry's medical "experts" in the 60's and 70's who had their own studies which showed that tobacco products were not harmful to humans (where are those experts now?). Of course with people's health the gov't stepped in show the truth. Horses are unlikely to ever have that level of help.

Ok, this is going to be like a single frame out of a 2 hour movie. This is a large subject with loads of information. Just the information on the various kinds of starches in dealing with equine nutrition is much greater than what I'll give here which is tiny.

Grain. All grains are high in NSC (non structural carbohydrates). Horses only need small amounts of NSC and that's what they're designed to handle. Horses cannot digest long fiber (grass, hay, etc...) which is what their natural diet is made up of. In the equine hind gut (cecum and large intestine) they have an extremely large number of various microbes that consume the fiber. The byproduct of this is what the horse can absorb and use. These fiber eating microbes thrive in a PH7 environment which just happens to be what a healthy equine hind gut has. There is also preset a much smaller number of various that live on NSC starch. These microbes numbers are sufficient to deal with the low levels of NSC that the horse needs in it's diet. They thrive in a more acidic environment. Oats is the grain with the lowest NSC at about 40% (corn is the highest at 70%). Just the 40% that oats has exceeds what the equine digestive system is designed to handle (so think what happens if you add in the low levels from grasses and hays that also have some...or even worse...add in the NSC present in rich hays and lush grass...system overload). The microbes intended for dealing with the low levels of NSC have to go into a population boom. This will alter the hind gut PH and make it more acidic. That in turn will cause massive numbers of the microbes needed for fiber to die and be absorbed into the blood. This can have different negative effects on the horse's health such as laminitis. In short it can eventually have a fatal. result.

NSC's are needed for good equine health, but small amounts that nature has designed the horse to deal with. They are present in all grass and hay. The richer the hay, more lush the grass, the more NSC the horse will have to deal with. They certainly don't need more. Eating 5 lbs of bacon and 2 lbs of sugar a day is not going to kill you that week, but eventually it will adversely impact your health. Same with what we feed horses if it's not what they should be getting.

Everyone is of course free to feed what they want. I just feel we should do it from a more educated and better informed perspective than the feed industry and traditions provide.
 
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#15 ·
Beet pulp is an excellent, very low NSC, highly nutritional (exceeds any hay you can find), fiber feed that works in the hind gut without negative effects.
All grains, as I already pointed out, should be avoided if possible.
 
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#17 ·
Deb,
You have some great resources available to you for dietary guidelines: your vet, TheHorse: Your Guide to Equine Health Care | TheHorse.com, your materials on horses from your veterinary technology degree, and veterinary textbooks. The more knowledgeable horse owners on this site are also good sources of information. So, talk to your vet about your horse's diet and do your research using reliable sources. If you need some suggestions for good veterinary texts or websites, feel free to message me.
First, round bale hay is generally of poorer quality than square bale hay because of exposure to the elements. So, right off the bat you need to definitely be adding a good quality concentrate feed to supplement nutrients. The best way to start is to pick a feed that fits your horse's age and use (pleasure vs. breeding vs. performance) and then feed it according to the label. Pick one that is affordable and easy to get in your area. Don't be tempted to skimp on how much you feed because concentrate feeds are designed to provide the appopriate amounts of nutrients when fed according to the label. Underfeeding can lead to nutrient deficiencies.
As for chaning diets, all changes should be made slowly over the course of about a week. Start by feeding 3/4 of your regular feed and 1/4 of the new diet for 2 days, then 1/2 and 1/2 for 2 days, then 3/4 of the new diet and 1/4 of the old for 2 days, and finally complete the change on day 7.
 
#19 ·
A horse that is thin, DOES NOT need a slow feeder hay net, esp on hay of questionable nutritional value!
I think you really need to start with the forage, improving both quality and amount.
Of course, if a heavy parasite burden is competing for that feed, that also needs to be addressed
Easy keepers, metabolic horses need to have some restriction of even forage, so slow feeder nets are great for them, but not for horses on the opposite end of the spectrum!
 
#20 ·
@horselovinguy
Honestly because I thought she only needed the extra calories on days that she was more active. That is until we got all her winter coat out yesterday and noted that she hasn't put on any weight since the deworming.

@Smilie
I do understand that she doesn't truly need a slow feeder right now but that is what they have at her barn so will have to get weight back on her by supplementing her otherwise.
 
#25 ·
I genuinely believe that if this horse is ribby it's because she's going through a growth spurt. She looks just fine. That cross is quite slow maturing and at four she is still a baby, so honestly, I wouldn't stress too much. She is not concerningly skinny, and it's better for a young horse to be slightly underweight than slightly overweight.
 
#26 ·
Thank you - I think this is what my veterinarian feels as well. They do not seem overly concerned but are still wanting me to make sure we got her parasite load down.
Honestly my coach and I were looking at her yesterday after brushing her out and she looked pretty thin.
 
#27 ·
All I see is a minor lack of muscle from perhaps not being in full work (which is a good thing, when the horse is only 4!). And a growth spurt. It's not a big problem, her hips look well covered and her shoulders have good muscle. Her neck isn't lacking either. She lacks a bit of topline and a bit of butt muscle, and IF she's ribby there's that too, but she's young.

Your vet is right. Minimise parasite load and she'll be completely fine. You worry too much!
 
#28 ·
Wow - you've got me pegged from just a few messages on a horse forum :wave: I do tend to be a worrier but my barn owner noticed it too and she seemed more worried than I did, which is unusual for her.
Thank you for explaining where you see the good coverage and muscle. My barn owner pointed her out on the body condition score as "poor". I didn't think she was that bad but don't really want her to lose anymore weight either.
For the record, she is only doing light work right now - mostly liberty ground work.
I have come up with a plan to try to get some extra calories into her for now and will watch her weight carefully. If I get some decent pictures where you can see what I mean about her ribs - I will add them here.
 
#29 ·
Here are some visuals on body scoring for you to compare, place your horse in with regards to where the horse in actuality is...
http://www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/library/images/main/1330.jpg

The actual chart with easily seen and worded critique...
http://www.habitatforhorses.org/the-henneke-body-condition-scoring-system/

I too do not see "thin" as in very underweight or a poor scoring.
Her build may be deceiving with that hair covering but her pictures with a matted down wet coat don't hide much.

Today many overfeed and think overweight, as in fat is the healthy way to keep a horse.
It isn't healthy for the horse though.
Your horse is well covered in the "marker" areas of shoulder, neck, wither area, tail head, butt and flank.
If she needs any more weight it is a very small amount and as others made mention, a little thin from a growth spurt is far healthier.
Honestly, unless her pictures of dry and groomed are strikingly different I would not want her heavier. She can easily cross to obese...
In actuality you should see some rib.
A to fat covered horse is not healthy, they are fat!

I would be following the advice of the vet not your barn owner or coach....
Looking forward to seeing the horse shed out and a "true" weight image appear.

:runninghorse2:....
jmo...

 
#33 ·
Thank you for explaining why you think that she is not underweight - I will study the body condition score charts more thoroughly. I suspected that a loss of muscle since she came back from the trainer and her still growing was responsible but got kinda upset when I could see every rib on Sunday. My vet isn't concerned enough to come out and actually look at her yet, they just want to make sure that she is parasite controlled first. Her annual exam is due in June so only a couple months until they will be looking at her anyway.
 
#32 ·
Thank you - between you and the others who have been commenting, I am feeling a lot less worried! I will be keeping a close eye on her.
I have gotten some awesome feed suggestions to put on some extra weight if/when she truly needs it. For now - I am learning a lot about horse nutrition :)
 
#41 ·
I have used a product made by a company called Pennwoods.
Product is Body Builder 4000 for added weight gain among other things.
I know breeders of Paso FIno horses who swear by it in their youngsters, training and show horses.
They also do rescue and absolutely every horse in her barn is supplemented with this product.
I know on my guy it make a big difference in his "blooming" and finishing touches that I struggled with and still do.
I can see the difference if he goes off his supplement for a week...
As far as I know Pennwoods is sold internationally.
Here is a link to the site....
https://pennwoods.com/body-builder-4000/
I don't know if this is something that might help you, but it definitely helped my hard-keeper and I know it is fed safely to youngsters through aged and rescues with great results on all of them.
Good luck.
:runninghorse2:....
 
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