Foals with mouth ulcerations and pustules and death!! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
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we have thistle out here and it can cause mouth ulcers... the barn I worked at had some in the hay they had a few years back, and we picked it out as best as we could.. but they still fed it...he lost some boarders/trainees over that mess, because they got ulcers.
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-07-2012, 03:48 PM
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Just sounds to me he is leaving these horses in pain, with open wounds. Doesn't sound like he cares if they live or die
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-07-2012, 04:52 PM
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Yes, the large untreated wounds is what I was referring to, not the feeding. Its very unfortunate that nothing can be do. I figured as much, but thought I would mention it just in case someone more knowledgable than me had an idea as far as pressing charges.

The best thing you can do now, I suppose, is educate the farm owner. If not done carefully and benignly, you'll most likely just anger him, but perhaps you can at least help him pull a few of them through this terrible ordeal.

As for them being sent to slaughter...honestly if they're in this bad of condition and are only suffering, it may be the best thing for them.

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post #14 of 22 Old 12-07-2012, 11:13 PM
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answering the OP directly- haven't read other suggestions through yet;;

I had an older QH mare that was sold to me as a 10-12 year old (papers lost so age not 100% known) and my uncle decided to buy cow hay and out where I live "cow hay" can be anything including clippings from a road side ditch. There was a lot of seeded out grass and barbs in the hay and at the time I couldn't make the 2 hr one way drive every day to check on her. My mares mouth was ripped up in a very short period of time and her weight and health drastically declined. The vets put her on antibiotics, rinsed her mouth on three different occasions and had me put her on a soft/moist pellet blend to help build her weight back up. I later found out that she was well past 16 years and that if we hadn't had the vet come when we did and hadn't put her on such a high protien/fat/etc. food she'd have died from malnutrition (despite being fed).

I sounds to me like the foals needed to be grained after their mouths were cleaned and taken immidiately off the hay that they were given. Rinsing their mouths wouldn't have done anything if they were still on that stuff. If any are still alive I'd recommened to the owner to move them clear off the hay get them fattened up on grain and slowly re-introduce clean hay into their diets once the sores are gone. It's what the vet had me do and it only took about a month to get all the ulcers gone and have my mare back to weight and healthy going that way.

In this instance there's absolutely no excuse for those babies to be dieing. Now that the owner knows it's the hay that's causing it (and it is if the hay is getting caught and tearing their sensitive mouths) they should do something to change it. Out here the owner could have the animals removed for mistreatment with that kind of hay when they can prevent it.

While you can't actually mess with the foals without getting in trouble yourself you can ALWAYS call a vet and ask for advice on what to do or get them to come help the foals somehow.
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-08-2012, 12:27 AM
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I don't know, these are not the OPs horses, and so she only knows as much as she knows. One foal was doing badly, vet treatment was sought and the hay was changed. That to me sounds like an owner who is trying to solve the problem.

How well do you know the owner? Can you ask them what's going on? Offer to help with vets costs?

Edit to add - my point is that we can't assume that more is not being done, just because someone who does not know the horses is not aware of it.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate everyone's strong emotions on this....there is in fact no law broken and nothing to "report", this is purely a case of bad horse management.

I now have some control over the two worse colts, the one with that bad leg and another that's mouth was one of the worst. I have pulled all of the cheat grass that I can, check and flush their mouths once a day. They are eating and the one with out the bad leg(Manny) is doing very well.
To make things simpler, I have named them...the bad leg is named Maverick and the other is Manny.
I am concerned with Maverick tho. He is eating OK, have him on real nice timothy hay and trying to get him to eat some senior grain, soaked. He is on antibiotics and I am treating the leg wound two-three times a day. He is coming into the barn at night and blanketed and turned out in a little paddock with Manny during the day. He is drinking and his manure is semi normal. It tends to be lighter in color and he is not digesting the hay as well as Manny.
Today I noticed that the left side of his scrotum was swelled up a bit. I usually own mares so I don't know if this is an issue from the infection in his leg and/or health or if it's just him growing... It is swollen on the same side as his leg wound.
Still working on obtaining ownership, so that I don't have to fight to give him any treatment. Trying to get them to ok the vitamins. His urine is a little on the thick side but not horribly stinky. Finally his gums are a normal color and his eyes are brightening up. Think the vitamins will really do him some good.
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post #17 of 22 Old 12-11-2012, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Photo of Maverickmaverick.JPG
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post #18 of 22 Old 12-12-2012, 12:13 AM
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If you want to jump-start one like this, give them the oral Liver and Iron, the oral Vitamin B Complex and the oral Vitamin A.

Then, to further get the nutrition level up, you can buy a sack of rabbit pellets. They are great for getting more nutrients into a debilitated horse -- especially a foal.

They soften up with just a little bit of water and even a half-dead horse will ea them. Just don't overdue them.

What antibiotic are they on? Some are rough on the good bacteria (like Gentocin) and you will need a probiotic to keep the digestive tract going good.

By the way, the very best probiotic you can use is a fresh (every day) pile of manure from a slick, fat horse with no parasites. Any animal that needs the bacteria will eat it like candy. That is how foals get their ability to eat solid foods in the first place. They eat their Mama's poop.

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post #19 of 22 Old 12-12-2012, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I only have permission to give the foal what the vet tells me to. They obviously don't trust me. I'm going in to talk to the vet today.
She sometimes will only advise bare minimum effort, similar to the manager/owner who caused this whole thing. It seems to be the common mind set, survival of the fittest! "If they foals right after they are weaned can't thrive off of cheap old(last years) cattle hay, let'em die" I find it disgusting but what can I do? They are not my horses and there are no laws broken.
Just going to beg the vet to give/recommend some vitamins and probiotics.
I'm going to bring a photo to her.
They desperately need to be wormed too. The manager doesn't believe in worming more than twice a year, on all the horses. He has 30+ mares and 2 studs and 20 geldings all in two pastures year round. For some reason he doesn't think that many horses in confined spaces get worms...They are ALL wormy. I have to worm my girls 2 like crazy to keep it under control.
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post #20 of 22 Old 12-12-2012, 11:05 AM
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Well I'm glad to see that the colt looks better than I first imagined... though, ofcourse, not as good as he should look.

Since all of the horses on the place are wormy (unless you can get manure from your mares and put it in there?) my personal recomendation would be to to ask the vet about a probiotic paste or suppliment. If they agree (and I dont really see why they wouldn't, its fairly inexpensive) I used Probios Probiotic gel (Probios Probiotic Gel - that I got at our tack shop for $6.99, but I use it on my minis so it might be more cost defective for you to buy the powder. I'd probably try to get a good 15-20g down him for a starter dose, then try a maitenence dose of 5-10g.

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