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Genetically Crazy?

9K views 96 replies 25 participants last post by  daystar88 
#1 ·
My mom is telling me that some horses have a genetic code that causes them to go crazy.

One horse is particular we owned was always scared of people which we presumed was her past. This mare grew partially fond of me and would let me do just about anything with her. One day I was riding her and she just did a really high buck and I fell off. After that my mom started calling this mare genetically crazy and saying all of her babies will be crazy.

We don't know ANYTHING about this mare's past, but we did have a baby with her and he's now 8 months old and VERY friendly and hardly spooks. My mom is telling me, if I breed him then he'll throw horribly crazy foals just because his mom was scared.

My question is, can a horse have a genetic gene that causes them to be crazy? And could it be hereditary.
 
#2 ·
Genetically crazy no. But personality and rideability does have strong heritability - as is problem by warmblood inspections. They place high marks on it. I definitely find rideability and personality follows families.

I perk my ears up at certain mare and stallion lines and stay far away from others. I know what I enjoy riding. How much heat and stubbornness without naughtiness. It can vary for each person and ability.

Why do you need a stallion? Particularly a grade one!!!
 
#6 ·
I know what lines I like and don't, but I'm also aware it's not as simple as that.

I had a mare by Dry Doc who every single foal she through was lovely headed, soft in the face, no buck, beautiful color and big bone with strong hips and shoulders - She also threw a lovely hair gene, all her colts had long, thick manes and tails. However, they were also all incredibly sensitive. You could make them mad easily. They didn't take to being pushed around, you asked nicely or you faced consequences. They were incredible, but you had to be on your best behavior. So we crossed her on a stud who was notorious for throwing good minded, stable colts - And that filly was the best she ever had.

Bueno Chex horses tend to be a little bull headed. Strong, talented horses - But I never got along with them for that reason. Quincy Dan was the same. They could buck, boy - And they were athletic about it. But you could get them if you really worked and had some knowledge.


Unfortunately if you don't, there are some horses you have no business being around. I see it every day, online and offline, with people handling and breeding or starting horses they don't need and ignoring the advice of others.
 
#76 ·
Bueno Chex horses tend to be a little bull headed. Strong, talented horses - But I never got along with them for that reason.
That describes my mare to a T! She has some Bueno Chex blood and is very bull headed. Huh. I just chalked it up to her less-than-stellar first six years of life. Now that I've gotten through to her the strong and talented part is really starting to show. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
 
#7 ·
Some lines can be more reactive or calmer, but with genetics it should only be considered a tendency towards such behavior. Even with draft horses, which are known as being “gentle giants”, there are individuals and lines that are reactive, spooky, and ill-tempered. But even a horse from lines known to be a certain way can prove you wrong. One of the wonders of genetic variation.

There is no switch-flipping that means a horse will suddenly go crazy for no reason, because there is always a reason. They do things that make sense to them in the moment according to their instincts and previous experience/training. If this mare had been poorly handled in her past, she had a very good reason to be suspicious and fearful in her own mind, because she was protecting herself. She apparently felt like she could trust you, which is great!

Her foal likely won’t have those same experiences. He’s a blank slate, and so far all he knows is good treatment and nice people who aren’t trying to hurt him. If you continue to expose him to plenty of things that might otherwise be scary, he’ll continue to learn that they’re no big deal.

There is a very famous video of an Arabian cart class that goes completely out of control – loose horse running with the cart slamming away behind it, running over people, into other horses, and at one point it hits a person who went into the ring to try to get it to stop. A lot of folks chalked that one up to “crazy” Arabians, hopped up on rich feed and no turnout, poor training, bad safety measures, etc etc etc.

In reality? The horse got stung on the belly by bees that had built a nest in the arena.

My point is from the observer’s standpoint, it looks like the horse just bolted and went nuts for no reason. In the horse’s mind, he hurt! He didn’t know why! He was trying to escape from the pain, and suddenly he’s got strange people screaming and yelling, no contact on his reins (the driver fell out), and people chasing him waving their arms. He was hurting, and then he was scared – all perfectly good reasons to run in his mind.

So, your mare may have started bucking for what seemed like no reason to your eyes, but to her, there was probably an excellent reason. She felt that she needed to protect herself, and she did.

If the mare had been treated well and just had a crummy temperament, or was just a fearful and anxious horse from the start, I’d say you might be right to be worried that her foal might have the same type of personality. But if under good treatment with a person she trusted, she became a trustworthy and happy mount, I’d say the issues with her were not genetic, but treatment-based.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I don't think some horses are genetically crazy, but I do know for sure that many horses have genetic diseases that can appear like the horse is "genetically crazy."

For instance, my personal gelding is wonderful when he's wonderful. He's relaxed, responsive, and very willing!
But he has a muscle disorder than causes his muscles to spasm and causes him a lot of pain on a pretty regular basis. When his muscles hurt, he's jumpy, spooky, and there's literally no way to "get through to him." On those days, he'll run you over without a second thought - something he would never, ever, think of when he's "in his right mind." The only thing that works is to read the signs and put him away because the day is not going to get better.

For instance:



vs

https://youtu.be/_lvU3qmyMX0?t=1m9s


He's clearly confused in the first video because he had never been ridden without a bridle before, but he was trying his heart out for me. He didn't throw any kind of crazy tricks, nothing to make you think that he was anything other than 100% reliable.
And then the second video, he's just different. Who knows what spooked him [nothing??] but he got a littttle nuts. Looking back, it was probably some kind of muscle spasm or some other kind of "oh my gosh, things suddenly hurt so bad!"...but who knows.


I don't even ride him anymore because those moves were becoming so common-place. I never fell off, he always had to go right back to work [he never ever "got away with it"], but he kept telling me that something wasn't right.

Nobody quite knows what he has yet [he definitely has "something" but it hasn't been named yet], but we're lucky enough to be working with a research group that is dedicated to figuring out why and how these myopathies come about.

My gelding's issue isn't the only one out there that can present like this. There's PSSM1 that is typically early onset, but there's also P2, P3, P4, P5, and Px which are all later onset [ages 8-15 is typical to show the first signs] and display like a horse "suddenly going nuts" at a certain age. P2/P3/P4/P5/Px horses can all be wonderfully normal, delightful, mounts before onset and then something happens and it's like a switch gets flipped - they suddenly start getting jumpy, start bucking, bolting, etc. They can be back to their perfect selves the next day, and got nuts again the next week.
They aren't "genetically crazy" persay, but they do have a genetic disease that they can and do pass on.
P2/P3/P4/P5/Px are all diseases dealing with protein synthesis. Many affected horses can return to some semblance of their normal, perfect, selves if they are given an appropriate "complete" protein at adequate levels.
The freak out are literally caused because their bodies have an increased need for protein and the protein in their bodies is not adequate for the level of work they are being asked to do - if they are asked to work beyond the amount of protein "fuel" they have available, their bodies will literally start breaking the horse's own muscle down as a source of protein. Talk about a MAJOR charlie-horse!
That muscle break-down causes an incredible amount of pain [obviously] that only lessens with the cessation of work, unless they've been worked to the point of tying-up.

If P2/P3/P4/P5/Px horses have adequate levels of protein "fuel" in their bodies, they are able to work without pain.

Some horses have multiple myopathies together which increases their need for protein even more, and so forth.

Part of the muscle myopathy research is researching where these other [P2/P3/P4/P5/Px] genes came from. Most of the current research is focused on stock breeds.
And you know what? Many of those stock horse lines that have always been thought of as "difficult" or "cold-backed" or whatever have also come up with a significantly higher incidence of P2 and P3. So far, it's been similar with Thoroughbreds and Px - difficult TB lines = higher incidence of Px. The crazy Arabian stereotype? Turns out that a lot of "crazy Arabians" also have P3 and/or Px!
There are new discoveries everyday, but so far the evidence is mounting.


Anywayyyyy, I really don't think it's as cut and dried as "genetically crazy." I think there might be "genetically in pain" [and I agree that those horses should never be allowed to reproduce], but genetically crazy - no.
 
#9 ·
Nothing in what you said, sounds 'unusal, or even that the mare is from a bad minded family.
I think you have posted about this mare before, and even ;abuse; was more assumed, versus just poor training.
Yes, minds and dispositions have an inheritance factor, but I think this mare was just never really broke well, or not ridden enough or was just feeling good, or, or or.
 
#12 ·
I once rode a horse who was amazing for long trail rides, but randomly would lose his mind like he suddenly realized there was a person on his back and he'd just been caught from the wild. He'd blow up like no tomorrow, then he'd calm down and be good again until his next fit. After awhile the issue just kept getting worse and he was becoming dangerous no matter what was done and he had to be sold. This attitude wasn't just while riding, it happened while approaching him in his stall, he'd lose his mind like you were coming to eat him alive and then he'd calm down and stand there like nothing was the matter. Someone suggested that he was inbred, but I really don't know what was wrong with him, but he was on a ranch where kids learned to ride and as the years went by he couldn't be ridden anymore. We never found out that he was in any kind of pain, but who knows, maybe he was only ever checked on days where he felt good.
 
#13 ·
Breeding can play a part in personality and trainability, I've worked with racehorses and believe me, there are lines that you just cringe when they show up at your barn. My own Standardbred is by Tagliabue a sire who was notorious for throwing "opinionated" *cough cough stubborn cough cough* babies and he fell out of favor quick. My guy feels the need to discuss almost every aspect of his training, but we work with it.
 
#14 ·
^^^ I agree.

Back in the 70s, I used to dread Meadow Skipper STBs. They would be okay. Then not okay. And every one of them that I was around had an odd little "squeak" sound and head toss in addition to their mood swings.

I did like them winning, but disliked dealing with them on a day to day basis.

I don't think it is isolated to STBs, either. I can think of some quarter horse lines I don't care for, and I do know of one line on one ranch that were all squirrely in the same way, though several different hands rode different ones of them. And not happily. It was definitely familial.
 
#15 ·
When I used to work at an Arabian Show barn, they had some horses I would call "genetically" crazy. At this barn, there was a mare and her 2 offspring. The oldest baby was a 5 yr old mare who was hot, hot, hot. I never did try riding her, but I worked her every single day for 6 months straight. Tack up, lunge, untack, and turn back out. She was down right crazy. She would spook at the feed bins, the flowers in front of the round pen, and anything in between. Her owner rode her for about 5 minutes in the round pen and never rode her again. The mare was always looking to explode. She was sent to a professional trainer and returned. I personally don't see the use in a horse that is just looking for an excuse to blow up/freak out.

The other filly out of that mare was eventually put to sleep due to neurological problems. Out of all the babies, she was the most difficult. The most difficult to halter break, the most difficult to catch, etc. Just like her older sister, except smaller. Very very hot.

It is actually very sad, as they were beautiful horses in every other aspect. But totally useless if you ask me. I see no use in a horse that is going to freak out and hurt someone. But they keep breeding that same mare, hoping to get another champion show horse... Why they liked those particular bloodlines, I have no idea.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I think a lot of this depends on how you define crazy. A horse will likely pass their characteristics on to the offspring as with any species. Depending on what those characteristics are why not? Also, in the whole nature vs nuture even if not genetically a certain way if the foal has say a very spooky dam he will grow up knowing exactly how he's supposed to react to xyz situations- by spooking! Raised by a different dam he very well may be the calmest most quiet horse ever...maybe not.

I've dealt with 2 horses I can think of that had a screw loose, both were nice horses but VERY overreactive out of the blue. As in difficult to lead from the stall to the paddock every single day overreactive. I don't think either of them were actually crazy at all, as in "mentally ill" but neither were they completely stable and trustworthy. Also a lot of crazy is people not knowing to read the horse, in fact I would say 99%. Can't emphasize that enough... Out of the MANY horses I've dealt with only those two come to mind.

Horses that are genuinely not there are NOT easy to handle and are flat out dangerous to themselves and others. Regardless of the reason most of those horses will be PTS. And no, I don't think that sort of extreme behavior is genetic but rather the result of trauma (bad birth, injury for ex). Even the most difficult stallions (which had better be TOP quality) are rarely "crazy".

I know a cute little reiner, spooked in his stall spun around and smashed his head into the wall hard enough to almost break the eye socket. NASTY injury. Was he crazy? He was just standing in his stall and then smashed his head into the wall! Or was he simply bred to be extremely sensitive and reactive plus he didn't get turnout in the bad weather plus a noise and a momentary lack of judgement on his part...? Or is it the fact that he was bred that way that made him "genetically crazy". I sure don't think he was crazy and I worked with him daily, just a reactive horse that had a whoops moment and forgot where the wall was.

So yeah, how do you define that?

Even out of humans with mental illness how many would you actually call "crazy" (answer none because it's a politically correct forum :P). Seriously though, mental illness is very common, far moreso than with any animal where you have to earn a right to breed. I'm sure we all know someone with some form of a mental illness or even have it ourselves. How many people do we know that are "crazy"? I definitely know a few "weirdos" but is it actually a genetic defect or just the way someone chooses to live their life? And when I say weirdos I mean someone rather eccentric that stands out, not some psycopathic raging lunatic. I sure haven't met any of those. People who can't manage to live among society are kept apart from it but are there really that many people who fall into that category out of however many people who would fall into the broader category of "having mental issues". If a horse acted like that no one would deal with it.

So I think there's how an animal is bred and how they are raised, but as far as mental illness, I think it's mostly man made, I won't say animals don't have some form of mental illness that is possibly genetic but it's definitely uncommon and even more rare for it to be something extreme as anything like that would be culled from the breeding pool. Especially compared to say dogs horses are working animals, they are livestock. Maybe less so than cows or goats as people do tend to keep them more as pets but they don't have a history of being pets, they need to do xyz to earn the right to live and reproduce.

And like I said before, if crazy is any horse that does something bad at least once then heck they all are crazy!! A horse bucking ONCE does not at all in any way make it crazy in my mind.

This somewhat comes to mind something I read somewhere where a lady went up to her dogs trainer and said "I can't do this, he's too stupid!!" and the trainer finally having enough of her said "the stupid ones are easy to train, it's the smart ones that are hard because they're smarter than you". And isn't it true..
@4horses without knowing the horses of course that sounds like a product of poor breeding with only certain goals in mind as opposed to actually being insane. A common problem in some Arabs and many similar overpopular breeds have issues like that as well. While German Shepherds sure aren't bred to be "hot" they are notoriously unstable if bought from a poor breeder, people are always impressed with my boy ("I've never met a GSD like this!") and while I admit he is pretty special even regardless of breed sometimes I wonder "well what the heck were you expecting! all he did was stand there and behave".

There are also external factors at play. Say a horse that chronically (not once lol) throws EVERY SINGLE of the great trainers you send it to. Is it crazy or maybe it has severe kissing spine or severe nutritional issues, or has never been outside of a standing stall in it's life aside from the trainer getting on?

I like to say my animals are "sane" but to me that just means they have a good head and use it, not that a animal that doesn't meet those standards is literally insane.
 
#17 ·
This somewhat comes to mind something I read somewhere where a lady went up to her dogs trainer and said "I can't do this, he's too stupid!!" and the trainer finally having enough of her said "the stupid ones are easy to train, it's the smart ones that are hard because they're smarter than you". And isn't it true..
Whenever people say that about (dogs in this case), somewhere around 99.9% of the time it's the person who's too stupid. And it's true that the less imaginative the animal, the easier time a beginner will have training it. Smart animals are not for the clueless or inattentive.
 
#18 ·
There are genetically "crazy" horses and there are horses made "crazy" by their experiences and there are horses who are "crazy" because they suffered some kind of brain damage, such as oxygen deprivation during birth. And there are horses who act crazy because they are in pain. If you have no back story on a horse you may have no way of even starting to guess which one it is.

However, in the OP's description of the mare there isn't enough information to even guess whether she is anything more than a normal horse that her mom doesn't happen to like.
 
#19 ·
Horses can certainly pass on temperament.

But unless something huge has changed, you actually do not not if his parents are registered, correct? You're going off of faith in the sellers?
You wanted to DNA test the colt so you could find out his parent's registered names - that means they very well could be grades. You also don't own the mare anymore and didn't fill out a breeding report. Your horses are all grades unless you have the papers.

You said that AQHA/APHA was going to make an exception for you - have you sent in the DNA? I sound super harsh here, but I am genuinely concerned about this breeding program you seem to be running . . . And any mare owners who want/have bred to your stallion.
 
#20 ·
I've heard of some racehorses who are very nasty and throw very nasty foals.

In personal experience, I do believe that certain mental disorders can afflict and be carried on to offspring.

We boarded a Belgian stallion for a few years because we had the facilities to keep him safely. We had stocks set up so he could breed mares without us having to physically touch him. He was an absolute monster. Wonderful one moment, demon the next. He was cleared 100% in all manners of pain, and the vet stated that he believed he had some sort of psychological damage that made him that way.

He would have manic episodes where he would attack anything near him. Walls, gates, people. He would stare you down through the mesh and lay his ears flat. If you turned your back he would hit the mesh with enough force to shake the barn. We found that keeping direct eye contact with him prevented these attacks, but he was dangerous. Other times he would lip and play with the mesh and try his hardest to get you to scratch him. He had to be handled with kick hobbles and a muzzle at all times. He was a notorious striker.

However he was an exemplary specimen, nearly perfect conformation, good feet, amazing working ability, amazing work ethic, would go until he dropped if you told him to.

We decided to buy the last filly he sired as a logging horse. She worked well one minute, would strike and lunge the next. She had every genetic and physical test money could buy. She was perfectly healthy apart from a fungal infection on her rump, which was cleared up. We did some more searching and found that many of her half siblings were put down due to being so incredibly unpredictable and dangerous. Very few did not inherit that trait from the stallion, and only one man that we found could safely manage the tendency that his colt had. He wore a grazing muzzle 24/7, but the man learned to see his kicking episodes coming before they happened, and put him safely away until he was through.

So, I fully believe it CAN be hereditary. But, many, if not most "psychological" problems are from mistreatment, bad handling/training, or uneducated people who can't handle the sensitivity of that horse.
 
#21 ·
I really have a problem with people putting a very low empathise on mind, versus ability, when breeding horses.
Yes, I know, juss as an example, a certain stallion is so fast on the track, worth so much as a stallion, because of racing records, that in cases like that, you do have to decide whether you really want to be dogmatic about not breeding bad minded horses, or be 'business sound. I get it when big bucks are at play, but what I don't understand the very low value put on mind, in many breeding programs
I once bred to an Appaloosa son of the AQHA world Halter champion, Crimson War. Didn't help that the AQHA mare I used, was Go Man Go bred.
At that time, I was just starting out breeding horses, making the same mistake many do at that point, and breeding to a very well known heavily advertised halter stallion, plus did not know that the Crimson Wars in particular were noted for being bad minded
Well, that stud had a screw loose. If you rode the crap out of him, he could win, and was very athletic, not built like a halter stallion at all. Next time, he could enter the ring after having won a national trail stake, and act like he never saw a trail course in his life. Enter the ring, for a reining run, walk to center for the start of the pattern, seethe judges sitting there, and act like a bear or something was sitting there. Show before, I won free style reining on him
I got one foal crop from him, and those babies were all idiots, so I gelded him
Even gelded, he was unpredictable. Once, riding in my outdoor arena, he reared when a truck went by (he had seen lots of traffic), and while standing on his hind legs, took a flying leap forward. I stayed with him, but he went ;down the road'
Far as Oxygen deprived at birth, often due to premature separation of the placenta, resulting in a dummy foal, I had three of them. I lost one, and the other two turned out fine. If you get them through those first three days or so, they will regenerate neural pathways
One foal could not co ordinate leg movement to walk, and would nurse, but could not lie down, so my vet showed me how to talk the legs out from under that foal, so she would sleep after nursing. I then had to get her up again, by lifting her, about a hour or so later to nurse. I did this for two days, and then as I dragged my way tot he barn one morning, she was up and nursing. From then she quickly learned to walk and by the 4th day, you could not tell her apart from any of the other foals racing around. She made a great riding horse,easy to start
Well, this has been an interesting tangent again, and most of it irrelevant to the OP. One buck, does not make a 'crazy horse', nor had the mare never bucked, would it mean that foal of hers, never will!
 
#22 ·
As a mare owner, I really need to like a stallion to breed to him. He needs to be superior in temperament, show record and conformation for me to even consider him for my mare.

I have gelded some really nice stallions with really great show records for minor conformation dings . They are happier for it. It isn't easy living as a stallion or showing/campaigning one. I love them, but they are PIA even the truly great minded ones. You have to be 10 steps ahead of them at all times to keep them and other people and horses safe. And othe people aren't thinking about stallions and leaving you proper room. People love to get to close and plant mares under their noses.

I liked to trail ride with my boy but I was always terrified about an unplanned dismount and him "possibly" getting away... luckily the one time we parted ways he stuck with me.

Now he is a gelding and so much happier.
 
#23 ·
Really like @Yogiwick's post. Good stuff from others too.

What I've not been able to figure out is how you could tell with a horse that a mental instability was a genetic brain disorder. I believe there must be genetic brain abnormalities, but it is so difficult with animals to separate physical problems from perceptual issues from emotional tendencies. Nature and nurture are nearly impossible to differentiate.

An example is a young horse I know, about three years old and starting training. She is sweet, calm, good minded. Her mother was abused and one of the most aggressive horses I've been around, defensively trying to bite or kick anyone who came near (even when she did not have a foal at side). The filly was with her dam until weaning, and watched as her mother lunged at humans, tried her best to snap off fingers that came near and reacted terribly to any handling. The filly picked up none of those traits.

So did the mother have a tendency to become easily traumatized, and will the filly be easily ruined if she faces any bad experience due to this genetic trait? Did the sire's genes dominantly express and give a good temperament to the filly? It was an accidental breeding, and the owner was worried about how she would turn out. What percentage of how the mother is relates to how she was raised/treated, what is genetic, and what relates to the mistreatment?

If a horse does things that are just too dangerous to others and himself, we have to put the horse down even for his own sake. Say a horse that just randomly flipped over backwards in the field on occasion.

But I don't see how you can know that horse was "crazy," regardless of behavior because horses can't talk. I've heard of horses that bolted, reared, panicked terribly and in many cases a physical cause was found. Even with those that we say we have "ruled out" pain, we can't actually know what is going on physically. Some horses might have vision problems that we can't find on exam. Someone recently said their spooky horse was found to have floaters in the eyes.

I think a horse might have an issue passed on genetically that has nothing to do with a mental problem. A horse might have an eye placement that does not work well with interpreting images correctly to a prey animal's brain, due to the breeder trying for a certain look. Perhaps a horse might have a hearing problem that comes and goes.
Horses have been known to have facial nerve problems that can flare up suddenly and cause severe behavioral issues. Some bolters have been found to have exposed tooth roots that were missed on multiple dental exams. I assume since some people get migraines, horses might get terrible headaches sometimes too.

I personally don't believe horses that spook a lot, get hot or panic easily are crazy. Even barring any unknown physical problem, we have lots of people out there like that and none are classified with any type of mental disorder. They might go to classes to help control their emotions or start on a medication to help. We certainly don't euthanize them. However, they might do much better with certain lifestyles and in certain settings. Some people might not get along with these types without the situation becoming volatile. Same with horses.
 
#25 ·
Nature vs nurture...the endless debate

Rather impossible to know if a horse, dog, cat, etc. is genetically crazy because it is very difficult to test. I have certainly never heard of any genetic research done in horses for "craziness".

In humans, tests have been done that show a genetic link to mental illness. However, the severity and incidence of mental illness developing can be decreased by not being raised (nurtured) by a mentally ill parent.

IMO, the mental state of the mare (nurturer) would be more critical than the sire, however the human nurturer needs to be considered too.

I would think trainability should be a goal for any breeder, and wish it would be the first trait considered for any breeding program. When horse were the main means of transportation, they were bred more for trainability and usefulness than for fashion.

Just my two cents...
 
#26 ·
This is a very interesting thread, I am happy it drifted off into a general discussion of craziness.

I have a 5yo POA, she has Impressive in her several generations back. (She is tested N/N) My farrier, once he heard of her breeding, said that all Impressive horses are crazy. Sane one moment then off their rocker the next. She is super sweet and I love everything about her so of course I still have her. Hoping she will cross well with a jack for a colored, well put together mule.

Anyone else hear that Impressive = loco?

This discussion has highlighted lines of not so sane, what lines do you all feel are the easiest to train, with super sound minds?
 
#29 ·
I am no expert on bloodlines, but I have had some Impressive bred horses in the past that were very level-headed, kind horses. Plus they stayed that way even if not worked regularly.

I too would like to know of some good, current bloodlines that are trainable and sane. I call it an "old brain in a young horse". I have been looking to buy and everything I see advertised has issues.
 
#27 ·
I'll post more on this mare.

We bought this mare from New Holland horse auction in 2012 and she was backing, spinning, stopping and doing everything a broke horse would do. The following Monday we got her home and no one could catch her. I spent hours with her and was finally able to catch her, but she was EXTREMELY headshy. Time passed and she'd just jump when people touch her and always was scared of human contact until she got realized you weren't going to hurt her. From the ground she was one of the sweetest horses you've met. Even from the saddle she was GREAT but really nervous.

In 2015 she bucked me off and you could see something obvious scared her because she was shaking. Outside the pen I was riding in however, others were riding and their horses weren't on their best behavior.

After she bucked me later that day she kept a horse in the field when I was opening and closing gates for some reason which I can't remember. Since she bucked me off she has barely spooked at ANYTHING. She got herself tangled in a wire fence and literally just stood there while I helped her out.

This mare has only been affraid of human contact which lead us to believe she was either abused or had some traumatic experience with a person that caused her to fear people.

Before we bought her she was used as a broodmare as well and we bought her without her papers. The man who brought her sold numerous registered quarter horses and she happened to be one of the last ones when no one was there so he sold her without papers.


I definitely know personality is genetic and some horses are aggressive genetically, we've had a few.
 
#30 ·
Okay, this is the mare you posted about before.
First, you saw her being ridden in a sales ring, which had absolutely no indication as to whether she was ever ridden out,and there are some reining trainers that are very aggressive, can get a horse shown, but blow their mind.
I happen to know of one in particular, through personal experience and that of others
It is also true that if you don't know how ahorse was handled or trained, you have no idea as to what part temperament, which can be inherited, is a factor, and how much is due to how that horse was trained and handled
For instance, I bought an Appaloosa mare off the track, who was App running bred (Bright Tiger) X TB (Annie Duggin). That mare reared, went over backwards, spooked and whirled, halter pulled. I fixed those issues enough to trail ride her, then put her in the broodmare band.
Her foals were all very nice hroses,easy to train, so in her case, genetics were fine, handling and track experience were not!
I also bred her to different stallions, including an AQHA running stud, and still all the babies were very nice, so it was not just the influence of any stallion
At that time, we were just starting to breed horses, so used outside stallions exclusively. In fact, our first stallion was a son of Annie;s
 
#28 ·
Nope, some IMpressive horses that are neg/neg have made very good riders
In fact, Simlie's dam is out of a son of IMpressive, Mr Impressive, who had both a performance and halter record, and is neg/neg.
I have won a lot with Smilie, ever since she was two, and ridden many many trail miles. Her dam's sire was KIlomax, so hard to say how much of her dam's disposition was from the top and the bottom. I bought Smilie;s dam when she was a yearling, at a select AQHA breeder's sale, as a broodmare prospect, as I showed Appaloosas
Since I always rode all our broodmares before they ever went into the broodmare band, I also trained and rode Mis Maxed. She was easy to train, and as a three year old, i took her to a local all breed show, where she did very well
I also rode her on a big mountain loop, where she again, proved extremely sensible, and then on a STARS ride.
After we stopped breeding horses, I sold Mis Maxed to an older gentleman, but a good horseman, who was impressed that he could hop on her bareback, and ride her out of the field with just a halter
 
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