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Itching Mystery

3K views 41 replies 8 participants last post by  jaydee 
#1 ·
Hi there,

my mare has always been mildly allergic to flies. Between fly spray and sheets, I've always been able to keep it to the bare minimum. She gets a few bites here and there, can get very itchy, but has never rubbed hair off. The mosquitoes, when we rarely have them, will eat her alive, so I have to double all my prevention/control at those times.

Anyway, I started feeding powdered garlic. We aren't in full blown fly season yet, but the midges/gnats and the barn flies are out. I have not found a single bite on her, even though some of the barn flies still hang around on the horses, they have not bitten. I was really excited about this. EXCEPT that she is still mildly itchy! No bites, no rubs or scratch marks, but she will still rub her neck/shoulder on fence and chew herself a bit.

This is only her neck and shoulder area. She does not itch anywhere else. Mainly it is right where the neck ties in to the shoulder.

I just looked up sweet itch, thinking it might be that, but apparently that is more common on the hindquarters and over the whole body, instead of just being localized to neck/shoulder/chest.

Her coat is in perfect condition. I mean perfect. Not a single bite, scratch, or rub mark.

Any ideas what it might be?
And if anyone has any topical ointments/sprays that might help calm the skin and stop her itching, I would like to hear about those as well.

When I have the vet out for spring checkup/shots, I may have some tests done, just to see what this is.
 
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#2 ·
She's not itchy cause she's shedding is she? And some horses are just itchier than others. How's her skin, is it dry?

Glad you're seeing results with the garlic. I have a mare with severe sweet itch and it's not fun!

There's also no way to tell if the horse literally has no bites. If she has (mild) sweet itch or another allergy even one bite could make her itch.

I wouldn't worry too much about it and just keep on doing what you're doing for now.
 
#3 ·
She has mostly shed out now. I spray her off at least once a week to help with the process as well. She looks really good overall. I can't find evidence of dry skin. She doesn't even have any dandruff, which she used to always have.

I'd never tried the garlic before. It's not literally keeping every fly off, like I said they still hang around. BUT no bites. I'll know for sure if it is worth it if we go another month and still no bites. Not sure if it is worth it to keep the other mare with no allergies on it.

I've looked into some topical sprays. The herbal ones, which have good reviews, use tea tree, eucalyptus, and lavender in canola oil. I'm going to try eucalyptus and oregano in coconut oil, since that's what I have on hand. I've had good success making my own fly spray, so I figure this is worth a shot.
 
#4 ·
Sounds like a good plan, just be careful not to attract more flies!

I would also be doing something like that. Our vet recommended neem spray for the small animals. Haven't used it on horses but I'd probably start with something like that.

I also feel a little like if an animal has a chronic issue they start to expect stuff. So maybe she felt some flies land and now she thinks she's itchy?

Regardless I would continue to do as you're doing.
 
#7 ·
I read the article. It's the same kind I found when I did my research. The writer referenced a study where they fed an entire pound of onion per day, and then as much as four pounds a few days later. That is far more of a quantity than anyone in their right mind would feed.
Mine get 3/4 of a tablespoon of powdered garlic per day. So it's barely anything. I have suspicions that powdered garlic is less potent/dangerous than the raw as well. After all, it is used in many commercial feed through fly reprellent/control supplements.

Regardless, I am keeping a close eye on them. If the amount I'm feeding now doesn't make any effect, I'm not going to bother upping dosage. I'll just stop feeding it and try something different. Definitely not worth any risk.

UPDATE: I forgot to make the spray I was talking about so didn't have it today. I went out and I did find a couple very small bites on her chest. I watched her while I was doing barn chores and she didn't seem terribly itchy. I don't think I saw her scratch or chew one time. However she does seem more twitchy/irritated when a fly lands on her as compared to the other two horses at the barn.
I brushed on a bit of a liquid liniment solution I have onto her chest, shoulders, and lower neck. It has aloe in it, among other herbs. Maybe it will help her feel more comfortable, maybe not. I just wanted to try it since I forgot the spray. Might as well use it for something (it was a gift from old BO this past Christmas. It's the Absorbine Botanicals body rinse).

I'd LOVE to find a way to get out of having to use the fly sheet. Because I don't want her to have to wear it overnight, it would mean running out a second time each day. (I do self care, but only go out once per day. This is because I have a slow feed system where they have hay 24/7. So when I go out, I just water, muck, supplement, and fill feeders as needed).
 
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#9 ·
Interesting thanks! I'll look into it.

The last full care barn I was at, the lady did feed through fly control. It inhibits the breeding of the flies in the manure. It did work, that barn had the fewest flies I've ever seen. However, where I'm at now, it would not work, because for that to work you have to have all the horses in the area on it. And not only is there one other boarder at my barn, but there is a 12 horse boarding stable across the fence and two other facilities across the street. Fly Predators will not work because of this situation as well.

So if it's feed through, it has to be something that will repel the flies off the horses themselves, and not the manure.
 
#10 ·
"However she does seem more twitchy/irritated when a fly lands on her as compared to the other two horses at the barn."

I think that's to be expected as she KNOWS flies = bad. And some horses without fly issues are also super sensitive like that.

I think maybe she just had a few bites that couldn't be seen.
 
#11 ·
Oddly, where I find her coat rubbed up from chewing or scratching (she hasn't taken off hair, just roughed the coat), it's in spots that despite deep palpation, I cannot find bites or abnormalities in the skin.

I also have yet to see her scratch her chest (this year, anyway). She has been focusing on her shoulders and neck.
 
#12 ·
I just looked up sweet itch, thinking it might be that, but apparently that is more common on the hindquarters and over the whole body, instead of just being localized to neck/shoulder/chest.
I'd say it doesn't sound like sweet itch. Amore has sweet itch, and I've known other horses that have it. They are only allergic to the midges/gnats, and those little ******s only bite where they can get down to the bare skin. So horses itch on the mane base, tail base, and under the belly/udder area. You notice them rubbing mane and tail first. The horses you see in photos that have bare skin all over from sweet itch are ones that have gotten completely out of control. At that point they rub so much hair off around the mane and tail base that the gnats are able to bite more areas and it spreads outward, getting worse and worse.

With sweet itch you pretty much have to either cover the horse with a fine mesh blanket or else apply topical spray. One bite starts up a reaction that can last two weeks. I am guessing your mare is probably allergic to a certain type of fly, and many flies do bite on the neck and shoulder area. From what I hear, most of these reactions are not as severe as the type of allergy that happens with the midges, so hopefully you'll be able to control it well.
 
#14 ·
I've never heard of those! I read some about them. Hers is a summer allergy only, and she has been dewormed regularly. I've never noticed intense itching after a deworming. She also does not get lesions or sores. She does get some hives/bites when things are really bad, usually at the base of her neck, shoulders, etc. Have not ever seen any localized at the wither.

Hers has always been controllable with a daily drenching of fly spray and a fly sheet. As I said, I'd just rather find a way to control it internally, if possible.

I'm going to look into an antihistamine. Dreamcatcher Arabians also told me about DMG, which has worked well for her allergic horses.
 
#16 ·
Yes, if I don't have a solution by the time the vet is out this spring, I will probably be doing tests.

The liniment seems to have helped. No evidence of scratching on chest, although I thought there were a couple more bites than yesterday. Also no chewing or scratching signs/marks on the areas I covered with liniment yesterday (everywhere she had scratched). She did have a few chew marks in different areas, so I covered those with the liniment today. I'll see tomorrow if she has scratched the same spots or if she has stopped. She didn't seem too bothered by the flies. I was bothered by them though! The darn things are everywhere, and thanks to the other boarder's less than perfect stall keeping habits, that horse's stall is a breeding ground.
 
#17 ·
I think antihistamines might be your best option, I've used them in injectable form on horses that have reacted badly to an insect bite and they've worked well, you might need to talk to your vet about a more regular day by day use.
I wonder if a good immune system supplement would help? I'm thinking Vit E and Vit A
 
#18 ·
1. Garlic is a two-edged sword. You were feeding processed garlic so it should be free of the element that can cause anemia.

1.1 I fed processed equine garlic to three of my horses for several years. While it didn't do anything to keep the flies away, it did do a lot to keep the ticks away.

1.2 One I learned is to NOT feed garlic to a horse with a touchy digestive system. If you have a horse prone to colic or prone to ulcers, "keep away from the garlic" :)

1.3 Wild onions --- <sigh> Every Spring, my horses come in smelling like the onion bag:eek_color: The healthy horse is on 20 acres. The insulin resistant horse is on 4-1/2 acres.

The insulin resistant horse has been getting blood work done since 2012 and has never shown signs of anemia. His blood work includes a Chemistry Panel and a CBC because I am that anal.

I'm not saying he might not develop anemia as he grows older (21+) but so far he's as healthy as, well ---- a horse in that regard:)


2. Neck Threadworms, a/k/a the real name of "Onchocerca Worms". They are not really worms. They are microfiliae under the skin from the bite of Midge Flies.

Regular worming does NOT get rid of them. Using two full tubes of pure Ivermectin at once does. Some horses need a repeat treatment in a few weeks, others do not.

If the horse does have NTW's, within 48 hours of double-dosing, the sores will have a horrible outburst and itching. It is the threadworms dieing off.

Really need pictures to see the rubbed spots:)


3. That all said: One of my horses is prone to environmental allergies. He starts rubbing one spot on his neck every Spring --- like right now.

First I make sure he doesn't have a tick or two burrowed in the crest of his neck.

Then, if it's warm enough, I give him a good bath with MalAcetic shampoo which is a hypoallergenic/vet developed/all natural shampoo for horses, cats and dogs. It stops his itching for a long time.

You can look for any livestock hypoallergenic shampoo and give your horse a thorough sudsy bath in it:)

3.1 My horse has been micro chipped since 2003. I have also always wondered if the microchip is moving and causes him to be itchy in that area when the weather warms up.

My two elders, who have since been laid to rest, were also micro chipped. One would also itch his neck in the Spring.

The other one was very allergic to Midge Fly bites and dealt with Neck Threadworms. Once I wormed him, he stopped trying to rub the barn down so I never suspected his micro chip causing him itching issues.

Hope you get the itch figured out by process of elimination:) Just don't goop your horse up with a lot of stuff, especially fly spray, as "stuff" will only make things worse.

You need to hopefully figure out the cause, or at least keeping the itch to a dull roar by keeping the neck/mane area as clean as possible. In this instance, shampooing the area in question with a hypoallergenic shampoo every few weeks isn't going to hurt anything:)
 
#22 ·
1. Garlic is a two-edged sword. You were feeding processed garlic so it should be free of the element that can cause anemia.

1.1 I fed processed equine garlic to three of my horses for several years. While it didn't do anything to keep the flies away, it did do a lot to keep the ticks away.

1.2 One I learned is to NOT feed garlic to a horse with a touchy digestive system. If you have a horse prone to colic or prone to ulcers, "keep away from the garlic" :)

1.3 Wild onions --- <sigh> Every Spring, my horses come in smelling like the onion bag:eek_color: The healthy horse is on 20 acres. The insulin resistant horse is on 4-1/2 acres.

The insulin resistant horse has been getting blood work done since 2012 and has never shown signs of anemia. His blood work includes a Chemistry Panel and a CBC because I am that anal.

I'm not saying he might not develop anemia as he grows older (21+) but so far he's as healthy as, well ---- a horse in that regard:)

I'm keeping a close eye. I'm not sure if it is doing anything or not. I am going to pick up Animed ImmuAid today, which has garlic in it, so I am going to stop the powdered garlic I am feeding now. I am also going to stop giving it to the other mare, as I don't think it's doing anything. We don't have tick problems out here, this is the desert and too dry for them.


2. Neck Threadworms, a/k/a the real name of "Onchocerca Worms". They are not really worms. They are microfiliae under the skin from the bite of Midge Flies.

Regular worming does NOT get rid of them. Using two full tubes of pure Ivermectin at once does. Some horses need a repeat treatment in a few weeks, others do not.

If the horse does have NTW's, within 48 hours of double-dosing, the sores will have a horrible outburst and itching. It is the threadworms dieing off.

Really need pictures to see the rubbed spots:)

I ruled out threadworms for several reasons. She has been dosed with Ivermectin many times before. She does not ever itch her mane, it is lower/base neck, shoulders, and sometimes chest only. Pictures won't show anything, as she hasn't been rubbing hair off. When she chews and itches, she is just roughing/mussing the hair. The few bites she has won't show in pictures as they are under the hair, I had to feel for them to even know they were there. She also does not appear to be allergic to the midges/gnats, but barn flies only. I know that sounds odd, but we have many months here where the only thing we have is barn flies, it's literally too hot for midges/gnats and you never see them until monsoons when they come with mosquitoes. She stays itchy throughout the summer, midges/gnats or not.


3. That all said: One of my horses is prone to environmental allergies. He starts rubbing one spot on his neck every Spring --- like right now.

First I make sure he doesn't have a tick or two burrowed in the crest of his neck.

Then, if it's warm enough, I give him a good bath with MalAcetic shampoo which is a hypoallergenic/vet developed/all natural shampoo for horses, cats and dogs. It stops his itching for a long time.

You can look for any livestock hypoallergenic shampoo and give your horse a thorough sudsy bath in it:)

Good idea on the shampoo. I will look for some at the feed store today.

3.1 My horse has been micro chipped since 2003. I have also always wondered if the microchip is moving and causes him to be itchy in that area when the weather warms up.

My two elders, who have since been laid to rest, were also micro chipped. One would also itch his neck in the Spring.

The other one was very allergic to Midge Fly bites and dealt with Neck Threadworms. Once I wormed him, he stopped trying to rub the barn down so I never suspected his micro chip causing him itching issues.

She is not microchipped. As I said, the midges/gnats don't seem to be bothering her.

Hope you get the itch figured out by process of elimination:) Just don't goop your horse up with a lot of stuff, especially fly spray, as "stuff" will only make things worse.

That's why I'm sticking with the gentlest things possible. A very concentrated chemical fly spray HAS helped in the past, but it's expensive and I don't like using it as I do try to stay away from chemicals as much as possible.

You need to hopefully figure out the cause, or at least keeping the itch to a dull roar by keeping the neck/mane area as clean as possible. In this instance, shampooing the area in question with a hypoallergenic shampoo every few weeks isn't going to hurt anything:)
Replies in red.
 
#19 ·
Thanks @walkinthewalk, definitely some things for me to think about. I will give you a more detailed reply later.
@jaydee what do you think about this? It's even got DMG in it, which is what DA uses for her bug sensitive horses.

https://www.statelinetack.com/item/animed-immuaid-16-oz/E002261/

Today I am going to take a small amount of the liniment, add a spoonful of coconut oil and a few drops of citronella and eucalyptus. So far, the liniment has been calming her skin and helping to stop the itching. Maybe with those small additions, it could double as a fly spray.
 
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#20 ·
@jaydee what do you think about this? It's even got DMG in it, which is what DA uses for her bug sensitive horses.

https://www.statelinetack.com/item/animed-immuaid-16-oz/E002261/

.

I would certainly give it a try - I think I'll buy some myself and see how it works because the product summary is promising and we're getting close to the blackfly and mozzie/midgie season already.
I found the supermarket coconut oil in a spray can was easiest to use - you have to keep it in a warm place in cold weather
Another product that seemed to help was Emu Oil - that had more effect that coconut oil
 
#21 · (Edited)
Walkin, I am surprised that your horses dine on wild onions in the pasture, yet seem to suffer nothing more then onion breath!
While we don't have wild onions in our pastures, they are out west, and I am always paranoid as to where I let my horses graze on trail rides, for that reason

HorseDVM Health A-Z | Onion Toxicity


I guess I would be worried, but then I don't have experience as to how many wild onions ahorse can eat, and not suffer ill effects

This article suggests the onion breath being the first symptom to become worried about. Since I know you monitor your horses very closely, am sure experience has taught you as to tolerance level.
'
What is Wild Onion Poisoning ? Wild onion intoxication in horses can cause severe anemia and even death. If you discover your horse has been ingesting wild onion, contact your veterinarian immediately in order to begin the detoxification process. Wild onion can be found growing in many regions where the climate is considered moist. If ingested in large amounts by your horse, it can cause severe toxicity that may even be fatal. The first symptom you may notice in your horse is onion breath. Symptoms can then progress to icteric mucous membranes, to abnormal heart and respiratory rates. Detoxification is key in cases of wild onion poisoning. There is no antidote so the sooner your veterinarian is able to begin supportive and supplemental therapies in response to your horse’s symptoms, the better his prognosis of recovery.'

Read more at: https://www.vetary.com/horse/condition/wild-onion-poisoning-
 
#23 ·
Walkin, I am surprised that your horses dine on wild onions in the pasture, yet seem to suffer nothing more then onion breath!
While we don't have wild onions in our pastures, they are out west, and I am always paranoid as to where I let my horses graze on trail rides, for that reason

HorseDVM Health A-Z | Onion Toxicity


I guess I would be worried, but then I don't have experience as to how many wild onions ahorse can eat, and not suffer ill effects

This article suggests the onion breath being the first symptom to become worried about. Since I know you monitor your horses very closely, am sure experience has taught you as to tolerance level.
'
What is Wild Onion Poisoning ? Wild onion intoxication in horses can cause severe anemia and even death. If you discover your horse has been ingesting wild onion, contact your veterinarian immediately in order to begin the detoxification process. Wild onion can be found growing in many regions where the climate is considered moist. If ingested in large amounts by your horse, it can cause severe toxicity that may even be fatal. The first symptom you may notice in your horse is onion breath. Symptoms can then progress to icteric mucous membranes, to abnormal heart and respiratory rates. Detoxification is key in cases of wild onion poisoning. There is no antidote so the sooner your veterinarian is able to begin supportive and supplemental therapies in response to your horse’s symptoms, the better his prognosis of recovery.'

Read more at: https://www.vetary.com/horse/condition/wild-onion-poisoning-

They have been eating wild onions every Spring for the 13 years we have lived in this state (Middle Tennessee), lollol

They both have plenty of pasture so it isn't like there's shortage of food out there.

I never worried about it. I took the horses off the garlic mostly for digestive reasons and second because it didn't do anything to keep flies away, just the ticks. We don't seem to have the major tick issues we had when we first moved here but we also now have a wide variety of birds and keep the pastures bushogged, which helps a lot.

Now that I have to carry my insulin resistant horse to the vet clinic every five weeks to have his aluminum full rocker shoes re-set by the vet's farrier, I can easily mention something to the vet. The house vet always looks at Joker before the shoes come off, after the trim, then again after the shoes go back on. He x-rays the hooves every other time.

I am sure there are going to be horses that are more prone to anemia than others but, when I first read the article as to how many pounds it might take on a daily basis, I felt like they would have to be standing in somebody's onion field and trying to eat the whole thing down.

FWIW, my grandfather had wild garlic growing in his stallion's 3 acre pasture. Pepper would eat that garlic down to the ground and never got sick. That is probably why I have never panicked over the whole issue.

Anything is possible if enough of something is ingested. The latest scare is arsenic in rice bran. The only thing I've read so far, to make sense with that is to find out which state the rice bran is produced in, as some states soils have a much higher arsenic content than others:-?
 
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#24 ·
Walkin, I do know that you go way above and beyond , far as the care of your horses, and thus am sure your hroses are fine on the amount of wild onions that they eat!
I'm just someone who has never had wild onions in my pastures, so of course, react to the info that is out there, and not on experience, beyond having seen Heinz body anemia in humans of course, working in Hematology.
Causes were different, but red cells look the same, LOL!
Yes, horses do get addicted to certain plants, even those not good for them, and why I don't buy wild horses seeking out herbs that they know they need.
Were this so, they would not get addicted to loco weed, eat oleander, red maple leaves, ect, ect
 
#25 ·
I feel your pain! My gelding has sensitive, itchy skin, serious reactions to fly bites, vaccines, shampoos, fly sprays, even diluted iodine. Thankfully, he hasn't rubbed himself raw in over a year (his chest, shoulders & belly are trouble spots,) but there has been 4 years of trial & error to see what works. He hasn't needed a vet visit for a serious bug-bite reaction in almost 2yrs now, thankfully!


He is on SmartPak Bug-Off from March thru November, gets 5cc Vitamin A orally every week (makes a HUGE difference and he WILL itch and get dandruff patches if I miss a week,) and he is regularly sprayed down with Healthy Haircare Moisturizer after grooming. It was a bug-filled 87° in Dallas yesterday so today he's wearing a fly mask but not his fly sheet w/neck cover, and there is a fan going in his run-in shelter. I add clear SWAT to his legs, sheath, and centerline of his belly, in addition to spraying on Endure, UltraShield Red, or UltraShield EX (he's reacted badly to Pyranha, Bronco, TriTec.) He's usually put on days inside/turned out nights by June, but it's hotter than usual so I may start earlier.
 
#27 ·
:eek_color: I am very thankful mine is not as bad as yours! Much sympathy. When I used to spend money on ready made fly sprays, UltraShield was the only thing that worked. And at that, the concentrated versions.

UPDATE: I went to the feed store today and bought the Animed ImmuAid, Horse Sense Oatmella shampoo, and a new spray bottle for my fly spray.

The shampoo if you're interested

When I finally got out to the barn later, Shan didn't seem too bad off. She did not look super irritated by the flies, and she didn't have as many chew marks. I went ahead and gave her a bath with the shampoo to help get rid of the loose hair (end of shedding cycle), soothe her skin, and get her nice and clean. Then I made the fly spray I was talking about making. It will be interesting to see if it works, as this stuff smells SO much better than my ACV fly spray concoction!

I did also start her on ImmuAid today.
 
#26 ·
Just wanted to add one fact. There is also the ability of a horse to adapt, far as bugs
When I used to show my reining mare, she was always turned out with a fly sheet, had repellent applied, ect
The first year that I semi retired her, thus turned her out without a fly sheet, like the rest of the hroses, she was super sensitive, and bug bites caused local reactions.
I once observed her, down on her belly, rubbing her belly along the ground. I thought some weird colic reaction at first, until I realized it was due to bugs
After that first year, she became way less reactive.
 
#28 ·
I wish this were a possibility. However, my mare has lived in the same area, in outside shaded stalls, for several years now. I'm sure she has adapted as much as she is going to.
 
#32 ·
@walkinthewalk

I am positive Shan doesn't have sweet itch. So I don't know if what I've done would help with that or not.

The Absorbine Botanicals body rinse liniment did make a good base for the fly spray. I tried it first with just citronella and eucalyptus essential oils. It practically attracted flies because they were after the moisture. I then added a bit of permethrin, and now the mixture seems to do a good job of keeping them at bay. I'm happy, because it smells way better and actually ends up being cheaper than my ACV based fly spray.

As for the ImmuAid, I think I'm seeing positive results. She's been on it three days now. I have not seen any new bites, and her old ones greatly reduced in size in the first two days. So it at least is reducing her body's overreaction to bites. Looking forward to see what kind of difference will be made over the next week.

ETA: She does seem less bothered/reactive to the flies landing on her, and I think there are less itch marks. Maybe I should keep a day by day tally of itch marks lol.
 
#34 ·
UPDATE!

Shan's itchiness has completely stopped. Completely! Yesterday I found a small bite on her, but today in spite of feeling extensively for it I could not find it. She almost never gets bit now, and when she does, she doesn't overreact to it and cause it to swell and itch.

It took me a few days to realize that I was never seeing her itch anymore. That and the lack of bites, Animed ImmuAid was definitely the right call. Thanks @jaydee for the suggestion on looking into a supplement like that!

So just to be clear or give new readers the short of it, horse was itchy and in summer prone to minor hives from bug bites. I put her on Animed ImmuAid, and within a week it all stopped completely.

I am so happy I don't have to mess with the fly sheet, as trying to go out twice a day was going to be very difficult. The only sad thing about that is the turquoise fly sheet did look really nice on her! lol.
 
#35 ·
You found that specific supplement so the credit goes to you!!!
Thanks for coming back here with your feedback on it - I noticed our 'itchy' horse scratching against a tree yesterday so I really must get some and give it a try. Sometimes you seem to have to try a multitude of different things until you find something that works
 
#38 ·
@Cynical25 @jaydee

Curious if you tried the immuaid yet?
Shan is still doing well. Still gets bites, but no hair loss and no itching. She doesn't even like being scratched anymore, lol.
 
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