L-Thyroxine for laminitis? - Page 2
   

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L-Thyroxine for laminitis?

This is a discussion on L-Thyroxine for laminitis? within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Thyroxine for horses
  • L-thyroxine for horses

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    11-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #11
Green Broke
If you're thoroughly confused by now, and you think those of us with metabolic horses seem to sound iffy with a lot of variable information, that is because of that Gray Area word "metabolism".

Just like people have different metabolisms, so do horses. What works wonderfully on one horse can be a dismal failure on another.

What they all have in common is to keep the sugars and starches of the entire diet as low as possible. That means 99% of them get nothing but grass hay; some are ok with pasture time and a grazing muzzle, others are not.

Some can have a bit of alfalfa cubes mixed in while alfalfa is "founder in five minutes" for the next horse. My EMS horse gets one pound of timothy/alfalfa cubes and thrives on it BUT he is 25 and needs that extra protein/amino acids for his muscle health.

My IR horse is so founder sensitive, he isn't even allowed to smell the alfalfa cubes. I am such an anal idiot that I turn my back to him as I pass his stall with the soaked alfalfa cubes, to give to my 25 yr old. Once in awhile I even tell him not to breath

You do need to stay on top of your horse's hooves. For some reason, metabolic hooves tend to grow faster than normal hooves. My horses are trimmed every four weeks - everyone is barefoot - the foundered horse has been going out to pasture, since last March, wearing boots and Lily pads - every stinkin' rotten day. I wash those d**n boots with warm water and Dawn Dish soap every night to help prevent any hoof issues. The boots/pads don't go on his hooves until I have throughly picked & brushed them.

I mention the boots as that could be a solution in helping with the sore hooves but, only if someone is willing to learn how to properly put them on, then take them off every night. EasyCare's boots can't be left on more than 12 hours; my horse is out 8 - 10 hours every day then in a stall with 12 inches of limestone crush, grid mats, shavings on top of that.

If you decide on boots, PLEASE have a professional trimmer (or your vet) help size the horse. I would have messed up royally if I'd tried to figure that out by myself. Not only the wrong size boots but the wrong style for his hoof shape.

I know we are all throwing a lot at you, you may want to start a folder on your PC for all this information. Either save the link to this thread to it or copy/paste things into a word document, then save them. You can always print stuff off and use it for your bedtime reading - lol lol lol

I'm chuckling at that but the issue itself isn't funny. My 25 yo was diagnosed with EMS in May, 2007. I did not ride one time that year as I spent the rest of that year in front of this miserable computer researching until my eyeballs looked like road maps to anywhere the car needed an oil change after it got there

We are all trying to help save you some of that initial stress and at least point you in the right directions.

www.ecirhorse.com is one of them that would be beneficial to you

Mill Creek Veterinary Service - Fort Collins, CO talks about Equine Metabolic Syndrome, a/k/a Peripheral Cushings although I never did understand that comparison
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    11-17-2012, 05:17 PM
  #12
Trained
Hi,

As Desert has said, I agree that it's best to avoid bute etc where possible. Perhaps the vet understands the 'side effects' better than some vets who would throw bute at any remotely laminitic horse. Perhaps your horse isn't too bad & with feed change & soft footing the vet thought that was all that was required.

As said, I don't have any experience with the drug that was given, only some basic theory on it, but if it is a general thing that Walkin has said, that it's a 'last resort' & should only be short-term, possibly your vet doesn't know as much about that one. If it's been such a battle to control his weight, I don't get why he was on any grain, but removing that & feeding soaked hay(unless it's tested as low NSC) is what my first line of defense would be.

So if the horse is tender footed & currently laminitic, not forcing any exercise & keeping him on yielding footing is important until he's over the 'attack' at least. This is usually relatively short lived, depending on the cause & management. After that, it will depend on hoof form as much as anything as to whether you can ride/work him.
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    11-17-2012, 06:16 PM
  #13
Green Broke
Ok sorry. No heat in the feet, he moves around a lot, he was playing with the other horses today (running around). He's standing a lot, he only lays down at night for a little bit.

He is barefoot and always has been. Today the vet said he didn't want him on bute because he wants me to watch for improvements.
Quote: No pain killer. He is not that bad. You want to be able to tell if he is getting better.

I have an awesome farrier who has worked with foundered horses quite a bit. I am going to have him out as soon as I can.

Thanks again for all of this great help. I appreciate it so very much.

I am overwhelmed and sad.
     
    11-17-2012, 07:30 PM
  #14
Trained
No need to be sad, at all. You're much better off with a good vet and an experienced farrier. Some of us here had to do the trial and error thing, and had to learn all by ourselves.
Your main goal now is to get him to a healthy weight.
You could talk to your vet again and ask if it was possible to try without thyroid meds first. Remission, or other IR supplements together with a new diet, might do the trick. Lots if exercise, like running and playing with his buddies PLUS riding or longing should get him down in weight fairly quick.
See it that way, you HAVE a horse you can exercise. Others are in pain and down and have to diet. Way harder.
So head up and make his little butt work, maybe get a ration balancer, the IR supplement and work from there
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    11-18-2012, 12:42 PM
  #15
Green Broke
I actually already started him on the l-thyroxine.

Thank you for making me feel better, Desert. :)

Doc said no riding right now, but lunging is ok.
We also have a nice roundpen and access to some good hills, and he can drive...I don't have a cart or anything but I was thinking about ground driving him around the property.

Even thin, he is a big arab (aladdinn/hal gazal lines), he's almost 15'3 and heavy boned. Not sure if this is good or bad.

Also should I trot him or just walk or? Walk him over ground poles? Walk him on the trails? Round pen?

So I grabbed nutrena's safe choice special care just to throw a handful in to get his supplements and meds down. I will eventually switch that to the Progressive Ration Balancer and just give him a handful of that, replace the equishine with equipride, etc. Any other ideas?
Soaking hay is out of the question, my Barn Owner won't do it...they were irritated with the hay net. The hay varies because it is so hard to get.
Some of the horses get a round bale, but Brandon's group does not. I kind of think it's uncool that I pay as much as the people who have horses on a round bale and their grain, and I buy my own grain, so he just gets hay flakes 2x a day. :/ Our board just went up due to feed costs.

Ok sorry for the rant/thinking out loud.
     
    11-18-2012, 01:10 PM
  #16
Trained
It IS uncool. If you were in my barn, I'd be more than happy to soak your hay, if you would do it whenever possible(we say "one hand washes the other"), and I would either get the feed he needs or take some off the board. But that's just me...
As for working him, trot would be nice, but straight, and steady. Ground driving is good, but if you do this trotting, you'll be dieting too
Don't know how your paddock situation is, but encouraging movement is always good. Like hay on one end, water on the opposite.
If he is sore to where you can see it, some boots, like easyboots or renegades might be of help for exercising him.

Would like to see a confo shot of your boy, since mine has Aladinn too
     
    11-18-2012, 01:28 PM
  #17
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by spookychick13    
I Also should I trot him or just walk or? Walk him over ground poles? Walk him on the trails? Round pen?I would just walk him. If he is foot-sore, I really would consider buying him boots for his exerise times and not Cavallos. Nothing against them for trail riding but, believe me, they suck big time for rehabbing a foundered horse; I learned that lesson the hard way

So I grabbed nutrena's safe choice special care just to throw a handful in to get his supplements and meds down. I will eventually switch that to the Progressive Ration Balancer and just give him a handful of that, replace the equishine with equipride, etc. Any other ideas?Too much of a good thing. You're doubling up on vit/min by feeding him any sort of ration balancer on top fo the EquiPride. Stick with the EquiPride and none of the other things, IF you can get EquiPride. Reason being it only takes 10 ounces daily of EquiPride for a horse to get all it's vitamins/minerals; it also has a pre-probiotic in it. Even at that miserable $60/50 lb bag, that is still cheap.
I think 50 pounds equal 800 ounces so that means one bag of EquiPride would last you 80 days. That breaks down to 75 cents per day to feed the best product on the market a metabolic horse can have.

Plus EquiPride is soy-free. Nothing made by Nutrena or Progressive is soy-free.

Some horses aren't fond of the taste of EquiPride, you could add half cup of timothy pellets. I was going to say add some water but the Barn People are feeding for you aren't they? :(
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    11-18-2012, 05:28 PM
  #18
Green Broke
What boots would you recommend?

I'm confused about Equipride...is it a ration balancer or a supplement?
One of the women at our barn feeds equipride, I could ask her to try a handful.
     
    11-18-2012, 06:03 PM
  #19
Trained
I'll let loosie elaborate on the boots, she has more experience whith which brand fits what hoof shape the best
     
    11-18-2012, 06:24 PM
  #20
Green Broke
Alright, I will finish up or sell the rest of my equishine and get him on equipride.
Today we took a long walk on a lead rope around the pastures.
He wanted to eat the fabulous grass we were talking on, but I obviously didn't let him.

I thought hand walking would be good for him.
     

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