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Lizzy's weight gain plus advice welcome

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    08-10-2012, 09:34 AM
The Nutrena Life Design products have pre- and pro- biotics in them that the other feeds we tried didn't have. Since I have never fed Safechoice, I can't comment on it one way or the other. I just know that my whole bunch blossomed on the Nutrena Life Design Compete, and are holding wonderfully steady on the Nutrena Life Design Prime.
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    08-10-2012, 09:36 AM
Green Broke
Hmm maybe I will have to ask Nutrena because the Safechoice has the pre/probiotics in it too.

Edit: I sent Nutrena an email asking about the difference.
    08-10-2012, 10:40 AM
Will look for a picture sharing site, thanks

You know, I was thinking the same thing...where is the difference between the safe choice and the life design. Not comparing the minerals and vitamins, the only thing I see is the safe choice has less sugars....and life design smells better
Which in turn makes me think even harder of going back to mixing my own feed with raw ingredients....Hubby keeps saying that anyway...
Dopo...if you want to go that involves some basic math, a source of the nutrient contents of all grains and proteins and a little time. I find it actually fun.
I used to, as I said, feed 14 horses with very different needs for dirt cheap. Base of alfalfa pellets, bran for balancing the Ca:Ph ratio, grains as needed, some with oats, others without, and a bit of soybean meal and flaxseed for shine, yeast, oil and a vit/min supplement. That way I also had the energy content of the feeds which you rarely find on pelleted feeds, and could really balance the individual ration.
Fed from a hard keeper TB who couldn't have oats over mama's and babies all the way to the super easy keeper Haflinger with that and always got compliments from my vet.
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    08-10-2012, 10:47 AM
This is the book I used. It is very easy to read and work with
Feeding & Nutrition
The making of a champion
Dr. John Kohnke
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    08-10-2012, 10:56 AM
Green Broke
Hmmm I'm thinking I would rather mix my own feeds. I'm hoping to get to the feed mill this weekend, it's a bit of a distance from me. If I continue to feed the Red Cell that should be all she needs for vitamins and minerals. But the rest of that stuff confuses me. How do I go about finding out how to balance this stuff?
    08-10-2012, 11:19 AM
I posted the title and author if the book I used. It gives you tables with the nutritional contents of all feedstuffs and also requirements for just about each type of start out with the hay. What type and how much by weight daily. Then you look up her requirements, add about 20% for weightgain and make up the difference with grains. As easy as that.
Meet her energy needs, see how you stand with protein and amino acids and add and substract accordingly.
There are even tables of what is missing in the feedstuffs and how and with what to make up for it.

To make feeding it easier you can mix her morning portion in the evening before, maybe without the alfalfa or beetpulp, and get her the wet stuff in the evening.
A feedmill should have all raw ingredients. Cost initially will be a but higher but stuff like soy and linseed and yeast will last a lot longer than the straight grains.
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    08-10-2012, 11:27 AM
Green Broke
Hehe I haven't looked at the book yet. I'm at work so I need to do something to while I'm browsing here lol. But I will look over lunch.

I don't feed in the morning and I just leave her bucket filled with her feed and then it is just given to her as is in the morning. If water needed to be added I would have to leave a water bottle next to it to be put in her bucket but no soaking just adding water.
    08-10-2012, 11:53 AM
That's what I thought
Is she getting two meals daily? For weight gain three would be way better. And the biggest meal in the evening.

Quick example of how that book works:
I use my TB and an Arab, both maintenance and had all converted in kilograms and MJ

TB needs 72 MJ
Hay gives 55, so 18 MJ needed in grains.
Oats has 12, corn 14,2, barley 13.7 per kg. So technically all what is needed to add is a kg and a half of oats. But he can't have oats, goes nutts. So corn and barley.
Now I look at the protein content. Grass hay is low. Corn is low. So we add some soy. And for everything else I want to add, I do the math and substract from the grain accordingly.

The Arab needs 56MJ, has almost all of that from hay. So he gets a little tiny bit of oats, and 50g each of soy and linseed for the coat.

And just to give you an idea about how much different the needs of individual horses are, a mare with foal by her side, Arab, needs 115MJ
A standardbred in racing needs 150MJ

So if you're willing to do the math and a bit of reading you will have fun, I guarantee
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    08-10-2012, 11:58 AM
She should be on Senior's starting her at two lbs per feeding. It contains beet pulp, probiotics for digestion and extra oils. You might try barely dampening it and if she likes carrots or apples mix some in. If she gets this 2 x daily you will notice a difference in her coat which means overall she's doing better. Invest in a small mesh hay net as it slows down hay consumption which improves digestion.Faster in, faster out. The nets are less than 10 bucks so hang them in two corners. She'll walk back and forth. These work well with timothy hay.
    08-10-2012, 12:12 PM
Green Broke
Here is the Safechoice original ingredient list

Crude Protein14.0%Lysine0.80%Methionine0.30%Threonine0.5 0%Crude Fat7.0%Crude Fibermax. 15.0%Dietary Starch*max. 17.0%Sugar*max. 5.0%Calcium0.90 - 1.20%Phosphorus0.70%Copper50 ppmZinc160 ppmSelenium0.60 ppmVitamin A3,000 IU/lbVitamin D350 IU/lbVitamin E100 IU/lbBiotin0.45 mg/lb
Nutritionally balanced for growing and mature horses alike, SafeChoice Original helps make feeding a wide range of horses more convenient - without sacrificing nutrition quality or peace of mind.And the Lifedesign senior

NutrientLevelCrude Protein14.0%Lysine0.7%Methionine0.25%Threonine0.45 %Crude Fat6.0%Crude Fibermax. 16.0%Dietary Starch*max. 14.0%Sugar*max. 6.0%Calcium0.75% - 0.95%Phosphorus0.65%Copper40 ppmZinc140 ppmSelenium0.3 ppmAscorbic Acid (Vitamin C)75 mg/lbVitamin A4,500 IU/lbVitamin D3450 IU/lbVitamin E150 IU/lbBiotin0.45 mg/lb

Life DesignŽ Senior equine feed is a highly digestible and highly palatable multi-form product specially designed to meet the unique nutritional requirements of older horses. Enhanced with added amino acids, highly digestible fiber, and organic trace mineral complexes, Life DesignŽ Senior equine feed is your surest way to show your older horse you care about their special needs.
  • Easily digestible blend of nutrients is ideal for the aging digestive system
  • Contains rice bran, flaxseed, and beet pulp for overall health
  • Highly palatable formula encourages consistent consumption
  • Feed as sole ration or in combination with hay
  • Balanced Omega 3 & 6 Fatty Acid levels from select vegetable oil sources to help reduce the risk of inflammation
  • Guaranteed amino acid levels to support muscle maintenance and health
  • Added prebiotics and probiotics aid in nutrient digestion
  • Organic trace mineral complexes for increased bioavailability, immune system support and protein utilization
  • Guaranteed level of biotin to support muscle, hair coat and hoof development.
  • Increased fat level for improved weight maintenance for older horses.
  • Guaranteed vitamin and mineral levels to support overall health and well being
When compared on Nutrena's compare products site the main difference is that the safechoice has 1% more fat. I can't find the full ingredient label like on the package but the safechoice really has the same stuff.

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