Lump on Lower Pastern, shoeing problem?
   

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Lump on Lower Pastern, shoeing problem?

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    08-18-2011, 06:27 PM
  #1
Yearling
Lump on Lower Pastern, shoeing problem?

Okay, I have recently noticed that Jake has had a lump on the inside of his pasturn/cornet band area. The vet should be coming out soon to do his teeth so I am hoping that she will be able to look at it then. In the mean time I was wondering if anyone has seen something like this.

It is very hard to the touch, not hot. No indications of swelling on or around it. Jake trots sound, and is fine after working. Jake has his share of scar tissue and lumps on his legs from injuries and a popped splint. But this is in an area that I haven't seen on other horses before. There is no puncture or known injury to happen to the area. Jake is older and doesn't move much in his 24x24 pen, so random kicking/playing around injuries are out of the question. He does fool around in the turn-out but nothing has happen, no signs of lameness has come up.

I've kept him in work as it doesn't seem to bother him in the least, and no new behaviors have come up and other horse people can't notice any lameness even when I'm riding. I've been keeping his riding lighter, no jumping or hard work outs, but he doesn't seem to be bothered. I've contemplated to stop riding for a while and did give him a week off when I noticed it even though he was sound.

He got shod about 4 weeks ago, and I was a bit unhappy about the shoeing. I later found out the apprentice had done the shoeing and had been having trouble with Jake laying down. I believe on this hoof the shoe is slightly off center. I don't know if that's a factor or not. I'll see if I can get better shoe shots later. But here are the shots, taken with my iphone so not the best quality.







     
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    08-18-2011, 06:48 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Could it be the start of side bone? I think it is where the lateral cartilage starts to turn to bone. I'm not sure on that though, I am trying to rack my brain from farrier science about 16 years ago. But try Googling "horses side bone." Ring bone also comes to mind, but I think that affects the pastern area more.
     
    08-18-2011, 07:54 PM
  #3
Super Moderator
Looks like a sidebone or even a high ringbone.

Both are only a problem if the horse is lame. Then, they are a career ending unsoundness. Sometimes they harden and the horse becomes servicebly sound again.
     
    08-18-2011, 08:30 PM
  #4
Trained
Hi,

Yes, while can only get a basic idea from these pics, I agree that his feet appear not well. Can't tell about the actual shoeing job, and it depends what the farrier/apprentice had to start with too... I would have them trimmed more frequently, to help get them - & then keep them - in better shape.

I agree that it sounds like ringbone. Trailhorse is right that sidebone is ossification of the lateral cartilages. This looks higher. Both sidebone & (non articular) ringbone are ossification due to wear & tear to tissue, from imbalance, concussion, ligament tears, etc. They in themselves don't tend to cause lameness, but they are more like a symptom and other probs that go along with them may cause lameness.
     
    08-18-2011, 09:59 PM
  #5
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
Could it be the start of side bone? I think it is where the lateral cartilage starts to turn to bone. I'm not sure on that though, I am trying to rack my brain from farrier science about 16 years ago. But try Googling "horses side bone." Ring bone also comes to mind, but I think that affects the pastern area more.
I looked into it a bit, though there seems to be limited information/pictures on it. But from what I did see I would think it is possible. The fact that he is not lame now, but has had some lameness issues in the past. It is very hard to the touch and doesn't seem to bother him.

Quote:
Looks like a sidebone or even a high ringbone.

Both are only a problem if the horse is lame. Then, they are a career ending unsoundness. Sometimes they harden and the horse becomes servicebly sound again.
I hope its not ringbone. I will do more research into it and ask my vet about it. He is perfectly sound now, I hope to keep it that way.

Quote:
Hi,

Yes, while can only get a basic idea from these pics, I agree that his feet appear not well. Can't tell about the actual shoeing job, and it depends what the farrier/apprentice had to start with too... I would have them trimmed more frequently, to help get them - & then keep them - in better shape.

I agree that it sounds like ringbone. Trailhorse is right that sidebone is ossification of the lateral cartilages. This looks higher. Both sidebone & (non articular) ringbone are ossification due to wear & tear to tissue, from imbalance, concussion, ligament tears, etc. They in themselves don't tend to cause lameness, but they are more like a symptom and other probs that go along with them may cause lameness.
Hello Loosie, I will be trying to get more shoeing shots tomorrow. I know that the shoe looks unbalanced and is a little long on the outside wall. I typically leave the shoeing to the shoers unless my horse goes lame from it. But I will have to see if I can get the shoer to be more observant of what his apprentice is doing. His feet were long, but balanced when I had the shoer work on them. I had just moved and it took me a while to find a reliable shoer. Then it took him a week and a half to come out, so my boy was about 3 weeks overdue.

I've always thought ringbone to be severely crippling. What else do all of you know about it? I will look into it, but would like to hear from other people.
     
    08-19-2011, 03:47 AM
  #6
Trained
Hi,

Upon googling 'sidebone' for some images for you, I found I was mistaken to think it's necessarily too close to the front of the foot to be sidebone - never seen it anywhere that bad myself, but there is at least one pic there showing a pedal bone with the side bone almost up to the extensor process - mid toe! So yes, it seems it could well be sidebone!

Afraid I don't have a lot of experience with severe ringbone, but in my experience and from what I've been told by others, so long as it's non-articular - meaning not interfering with joints - it can be quite... impressive & not cause lameness.

Articular ringbone on the other hand, being in the joint, can be quite debilitating, and possibly the only answer to it once it's advanced, is to help the horse put up with it until the effected pastern joints actually fuse, at which time it stops being painful. *There is some anecdotal info to suggest horses can partially recover from it, with correct movement allowing the bone to remodel back, wearing away the excess ossification, but not sure that cartilage can grow back at all, so... I personally know of one animal that was diagnosed with it - tho without xrays(?), who had very little movement throughout pastern joints, but did improve enough to regain more flexion, be paddock sound & able to run with his mates again.

I would personally want xrays and to get his feet well balanced & functioning, consider using boots rather than shoes(poss only low profile, as high may rub) if it is non articular or so far minor joint issues. I'd want to find some 'experts' - vet, farrier, etc, who is experienced with it - not just the creating/diagnosing either!<GG> I'd also put some time into studying these conditions, hoof function & soundness generally and the pros & cons of different approaches for it. I wouldn't fret about articular stuff too much, as if he's not at all lame, hopefully if it is present, you'll have caught it early enough to halt or at least slow it's progress with good management.

Anyway, that's about the extent of my knowledge of it, so sorry I can't give you more!
     

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