My awfully lame - newly barefoot mare has swollen legs. - Page 3
 
 

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My awfully lame - newly barefoot mare has swollen legs.

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  • Equine false retained sole swollen leg
  • Why is my horses sole swollen

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    10-21-2011, 11:06 PM
  #21
Yearling
I have both barefoot AND shod horses depending on their needs and the amount of work they are in. I have a very competent farrier that always lightly trims the frog and sole. I always understood that shaping the sole so that they do NOT stand on it and so concavity was maintained was a good thing provided it is done correctly and not to the point of causing it to bleed/bruise/etc. My horses have never taken a lame step after trimming and in cases of getting new horses in are usually sounder after a visit from my farrier. Is it truly a hard and fast rule to not touch the sole at all or is this one of those things that unless you are truly knowledgeable you shouldn't mess with? I can pull shoes, round edges and level heels as needed but I prefer to pay a professional to keep my horse's feet healthy as I don't have the time, physical strength or skill it requires to keep my horse's feet in top shape. Was just curious about the sole rule and decided to subscribe. Thanks!
     
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    10-21-2011, 11:54 PM
  #22
Green Broke
The "don't trim the sole" rule is just from my personal experience. It seems like if I touch the sole on my otherwise sound barefoot horse, I will be using hoof boots for a couple of weeks.

I put it out there as a warning that if you trim the sole on a barefoot horse you might very well have a sore horse. But if you don't, then great. You are doing better than me.

In my opinion concavity is something the horse has on it's own though. It's not something you make by carving out the hoof. There is only so much depth to the sole so I personally don't like thinning it. Generally I only remove sole if I think it is retained sole- sole that needs to come out but just hasn't flaked out on it's own yet. That kind of sole you can sometimes grab a piece of with the nippers and pull and it pops out in a big chunk.
     
    10-22-2011, 12:08 AM
  #23
Yearling
Most farriers around here tend to make pancake feet out of just about anything. I have even seen some rasp them down to the point of ZERO concavity so the horse is just sitting on the sole with no heel or wall support and then people wonder why their pasture puff needs shoes. It kills me...I guess because of what goes on here I'm more apt to take sole rather than leave it and run the risk of them having no concavity. I have a few Quarter Horses and a mustang that grow lots of wall and naturally have very concave feet whereas my TB and to some extent my draft/warmblood crosses tend to grow more sole than wall and we try to balance them so that they aren't standing on the sole or flaring out and running down their heels. Just like everything you have to tailor to each horse you can't just nip a circle off, rasp it flat and slap a shoe on if you want/need it. If it was that easy it would save me a lot of money every month!!
     
    10-22-2011, 01:07 AM
  #24
Yearling
What I'm seeing with my novice eye is her dropped, flat sole, contracted tendons and her frogs which have been brutalized. I would strongly suggest getting some boots for her while she transitions to being barefoot. My horses are 100% barefoot and have NO issues with gravel. Never trim the frog or sole, unless it is shedding.
     
    10-22-2011, 06:25 PM
  #25
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by NittanyEquestrian    
understood that shaping the sole so that they do NOT stand on it and so concavity was maintained was a good thing provided it is done correctly and not to the point of causing it to bleed/bruise/etc.
While healthy hoof walls should definitely share the load, IMO it is SOOO important that the underside of the foot - sole, frog, heel - should also most definitely be part of the support. I believe the horses hoof, as with every other animal's foot is built for use. I cannot believe that God/evolution(whatever you like) would put something on the bottom of an animal's foot that's not meant to contact the ground. Even if you do cut concavity in, so there is no ground support for the sole & frog on hard, flat ground, what happens when the horse is on broken or yielding ground - he still gets the ground pressure on his soles regardless of your efforts, but thinning it provides less 'armour plating' to protect the internal structures.

I think peripheral loading - as with either metal rims or overlong walls on flat ground - is about the biggest mechanical problems for hooves. Without ground support under the pedal bone, the entire horse is effectively just 'hanging' by the tenuous laminar connections & so the hoof inside the capsule can 'sink'. I think this is why so many horses have thin, flat soles and shod horses tend to have far longer capsules than (healthy) bare feet.

Quote:
truly a hard and fast rule to not touch the sole at all or is this one of those things that unless you are truly knowledgeable you shouldn't mess with?
Yes, it is truly a rule... but there are exceptions to every rule IME. So saying, I can't think of a single exception ATM that would cause me to trim into *live* sole. Perhaps tho that is the difference that you may not get with your farrier.

Quote:
I can pull shoes, round edges and level heels as needed but I prefer to pay a professional to keep my horse's feet healthy as I don't have the time, physical strength or skill it requires to keep my horse's feet in top shape.
That's good, that you can do that. Whether or not a horse owner ultimately aspires to do the farriery themselves, I think learning the principles particularly - and some basic practice in case of emergency - is very important. Not least because most of the horse's hoof health is down to us, not the once a month or 2 visits from the farrier.

Quote:
In my opinion concavity is something the horse has on it's own though. It's not something you make by carving out the hoof. There is only so much depth to the sole so I personally don't like thinning it.


Quote:
Most farriers around here tend to make pancake feet out of just about anything. I have even seen some rasp them down to the point of ZERO concavity so the horse is just sitting on the sole with no heel or wall support and then people wonder why their pasture puff needs shoes. It kills me...I guess because of what goes on here I'm more apt to take sole rather than leave it and run the risk of them having no concavity.
I have included a (very simplistic) diagram of a healthy foot vs one that's gone 'splat' - whether or not it's happened due to a farrier rasping into the sole. First consider that the healthy hoof doesn't have too much sole, but it is adequate. Next consider that individual horses have different amounts of concavity naturally and depending on their environment. Eg. Some horses have relatively flat pedal bones at the bottom compared with others. Horses that are used to working on hard, flat surfaces tend to have flatter soles - filled in more around the frog, which allows ground support on these unnatural surfaces. Now imagine how much protection the horse has(n't) already if they have 'pancake' feet, even before we think about carving 'natural' concavity.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg healthy vs splat.jpg (13.8 KB, 48 views)
     
    10-22-2011, 06:52 PM
  #26
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by manca    
I noticed that rings too... But I don't think she has/had laminitis. She wasn't lame, didn't have hot hooves, no pulse... I don't see a reason how she could get it. She is a hard keeper, ... I wonder if rings could be from changing her feed often?
Yeah, not saying she has, just something to consider as a possibility. But 'low grade' or 'sub clinical' laminitis doesn't necessarily come with obvious lameness and if the 'attack' was mild or not happening right at the time you check the heat & pulse can be normal. Basically think of 'sub clinical' signs as the early warning system. Laminitis tends to be due to metabolic upsets, for one reason or another & while overweight horses tend to be more at risk, weight doesn't necessarily come into it. Yes, the metabolic upsets can be due to changing feed often. Can mean as good as nothing, but worth noticing.

Quote:
I want to have her barefoot only for the winter. It's my senior year and I won't be able to ride much (if at all...) so my farrier agreed it was a good idea to take her shoes off. If by any miracle she was ok on gravel too, then we would leave her barefoot for summer too, but I don't think that will happen.
I don't think miracles have much to do with it but management generally. The more you understand the principles, the better you'll be able to ascertain whether it may be possible to manage her to give the best chance of her developing strong, 'rock crunching' feet. But even if - like many people in the 'real world' - it's not possible, there are still hoof boots as a generally appropriate alternative to shoes.

Quote:
She is sound on the soft grass, on fine sand, in hard ground paddock with no grass (no rain for so long...), but she is walking slowly and carefully over the gravel road.
I don't think 'tender' on gravel necessarily means lame at all(tho it often may). It's not an oxymoron that I'm not lame but at the start of spring(after a winter in warm boots) I can't easily walk on gravel bare either. *That's not to say I think it's a good idea that because it may not be classed as 'lameness' it's good to force the issue... for a horse or for me!
     

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