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Is my filly skinny? Or is she just a typical growing filly?

17K views 62 replies 23 participants last post by  Oldhorselady 
#1 ·
Okay, I know I came on here looking for feed advice, and I think I've found what works, but I have yet to really get it. My 3 y/o QH filly, Ginger, is so hard to keep weight on. Sometimes a nice, green, open pasture makes her fat as a tick, and other times it isn't enough. I've had her on multiple different feeds, high fat, high protein, high and balanced everything, etc etc, and her weight still fluctuates.

I don't have an adequate pasture at home, however, and I will be re-seeding it so that it can start growing properly. So, until my pasture looks like a big green sea of grass-heaven, Ginger has to be on hay. And the pasture I usually rent out is taken for the summer, so hay is all I've got.

I was told by my vet to buy some high-protein hay that has some sort of grain in it, like barley, wheat grass, or rye grass. I found some nice rye grass/blue stem mixed round bales that were high in protein. This has put on some weight, and has given her that oh-so-attractive hay belly, but she just doesn't look right to me.

I also read about the benefits of BOSS seeds, and have started gradually adding about a pound of those into her diet. She is also on a pound of Nutrena's Empower Balance grass ration balancer a day. This might not sound like enough for her, but I am slowly increasing the amounts. She is 14HH and approx. 950-1000 lbs. With this she also has 24/7 access to mineral and regular salt. My vet said this is balanced, but is there anything I'm missing? She is UTD on everything.

Here are some pictures. It shows her from when I first got her a year ago and recently.

I might add that she was bone skinny when I first got her, so her growth has been stunted A LOT. Her sire and dam were nearly 16HH, and she is just a smidgen over 14HH.

First picture is after I had her for just a week, and she put on a good amount of weight.

Second picture was after I had her for two months. She started getting some fat and muscle.

Third and fourth pictures were taken last week, a year since I had gotten her. She has grown very little, and sometimes even loses weight with no cause. But she looks fat, however her ribs are still visible. Is this normal?

Thanks for any input! Ya'll are GREAT!
 

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#4 ·
Do you not feed any grain?? Not sure what boss is but I don't think it is grain. And your hay doesn't look very nutritous. So add some safe choice or something like that. A young horse needs more than just hay. Do you also have mineral and salk blocks? And yes a good worming program
 
#8 ·
You really should read more carefully before asking questions that the OP has already stated the answer too. :-(

OP, It sounds like you just have one of those "hard keepers". Free choice hay and the feeds you state are quite the norm, and for another horse, would have them slick and fat. Yours is just not as thrifty with her feed usage.

I have always had good luck with BOSS and Calf Manna for helping keep weight on the less thrifty ones.

Other than being a bit thin, she looks plenty healthy, and cute too boot!! :)
 
#6 ·
I might add that she was bone skinny when I first got her, so her growth has been stunted A LOT. Her sire and dam were nearly 16HH, and she is just a smidgen over 14HH.


She has grown very little, and sometimes even loses weight with no cause. But she looks fat, however her ribs are still visible. Is this normal?
First - parent size does not always indicate what size the offspring will be.

As far as seeing ribs on a three year old - yes it does happen.

How have the heat and bugs been? A horse can lose water weight and walk/stomp off weight easily in the summer.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Emily,

Yes, she is skinny and an unhealthy weight.

The four photos show a progressive loss of weight and condition. The second photo is not an unhealthy weight, but is pretty typical for a young horse in the middle of a growth spurt. The third and fourth photo are cause for concern.

I think you need to recalibrate your eye and gain a better understanding of weight and condition. A good place to start is by understanding body score.

The University of Maine - Cooperative Extension Publications - Bulletin #1010, Body Condition Scoring for Your Horse

In the third photo, her entire backbone protrudes, and there are hollows both in front of and behind the wither. Compare that to the first photo, where the backbone is not at all visible, and there is flesh filling in the space behind the shoulder blade.

According to the body scale, the first photo is a 5 - 5.5, the second photo is a 4.5 - 5, the third photo is a 3 - 4, and the fourth photo is a 4.

The good news is that she is coming back from the condition in the third photo. The bad news that you're having trouble evaluating what you see accurately.

... might add that she was bone skinny when I first got her, so her growth has been stunted A LOT. Her sire and dam were nearly 16HH, and she is just a smidgen over 14HH.

First picture is after I had her for just a week, and she put on a good amount of weight.

Second picture was after I had her for two months. She started getting some fat and muscle.
If the first photo was after you had her for a week, she was not skinny when you got her, she was in good condition.

In the second photo, she has not *gained* fat and muscle, she has lost both fat and muscle, but it is within the range of normal if she also was having a growth spurt at the same time. If she did not have a growth spurt within that two month period, she just flat wasn't geting enough nutrition to maintain her weight, let alone grow.

In the third and fourth photos, there is absolutely nothing about her that "looks fat." There is nothing wrong with a growing youngster having a slight shadow of ribs, as in the second photo, but only if otherwise flesh and condition are good, which they are not in the third and fourth photo.

I would be having a serious conversation with an experienced horse person or vet and re-evaluate your feeding program.
 
#9 ·
Perhaps find a youngstock feed for her and provide mineral blocks in her field. Never heard of BOSS, but a youngstock feed should have all the nutrients in the right proportions for her needs. Like others have said, makes sure she doesn't have a belly of worms (I'd do a feacal worm egg count before worming so you know if it was worms or not). If you don't feel your hay is doing a good enough job, I would also find a 'forage replacer', like a chaff (We have dengie Hi-Fi Original - Dengie Horse Feeds in UK, but I guess you have equivalent companies!), and use that as a base for the bucket feed. Horses are designed to process fiber and do very well on it

I have seen some real scraggly skinny youngsters that make me think '!!' and then 6 months later, they've suddenly bulked out into very handsome looking, fit animals just entering their prime. Youngsters do go through growth spurts and some look terrible, then they fill out once they've just about finished growing and look fit and healthy and rareing to go- kinda like teenage lads going from bones to hulk in a few months!!
 
#10 ·
I don't see a 1000 lb horse in those photos. I see maybe an 800 or 750 lb horse, without a scale it would be hard to be very accurate.

Rather than buy the Empower and BOSS, I'd buy something like Safechoice or Strategy or even Ultium for her.

First, I'd take a fecal sample to the vet to check for parasites, just because that's a good place to start. If needed I'd give her a de-worming and then concentrate on feeding her up.

I like to use Strategy and Ultium for weight gain and I've had good luck with Omolene 400 & Ultium as well. Feed for where you want her to be, so if you want 950 lbs, then feed her that amount and she will gain. It will take time, especially if she starts growing to make up for the lack in her earlier life.

She's thin now and in the first pic I still would have liked to see her rounder. She has lost weight and condition since then and needs about 200 lbs according to what I'm seeing in the pics.
 
#11 ·
Folks, BOSS = black sunflower seeds.

OP, BOSS is not the best choice, because it's high in omega 6, but lacking omega 3. So instead of BOSS, I'd add cup of canola or veggie oil + flax to her grain (and at this age I wouldn't go with just hay, but feed more nutrition). And no, she doesn't look fat to me on last 2 pics and she doesn't weight 1000 lbs either. If you use measuring tape, with the hay or wormy belly it may give you a wrong estimate.

I very much agree with what maura and DA said in thread.
 
#12 ·
Differing opinions. Since the filly has nice covering on her hips I like to see a little bit of rib at this age as it is actually healthier than a fat horse. If you are feeding high protein go easy. Her body is designed for long fiber. Too many grains or overloading the vitamins and minerals can cause rapid growth spurts and you don't really want that as joint problems can develop.
 
#13 ·
The most telling detail in the OP's original post is not even the evidence of the photos.

It's that she asks the question "Skinny or growing?" and then goes on to tell us several times, that the filly isn't growing. So, that leaves one answer.

Saddlebag, I like to see young horses on the lean side, and dislike seeing a halter show ring fat yearling or two year old. And I would prefer a three year old to look like a three old - leaner than its mature counterpart.

However, a horse that doesn't grow at all between the age of 3 and 4 and goes from a 5.5 to a 3 on the body score scale in the same period while not growing is not a healthy horse.
 
#14 ·
However, a horse that doesn't grow at all between the age of 3 and 4
Just to add... Both my horses went from 13'1 and on skinny side to 14 between 1.5 and 2, and up to 14'3 and 15'1 by 4 yo. So the proper nutrition is a key.
 
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#16 ·
I agree that the first step is to get a fecal egg count to determine if worms are an issue. If she hasn't been wormed recently, and the FEC comes up clean, you might consider worming for tapeworms anyway (praziquantel, I believe), since those won't always show up in the test.

I think you're on the right track with her diet, but it needs some tweaking- if she's not already getting free choice hay I'd get as close to it as you're able to do, as well as increase the Empower Balance to 1.5-2 lbs/day. For added calories, my go-to's are rice bran, beet pulp and alfalfa. You can feed any combination of those things but limit rice bran to 2 lbs/day (look for the fortified, stabilized kind), and beet pulp to ~4 lbs/day (dry weight). For alfalfa, you can feed pellets, cubes, or hay- get whatever is most convenient/cheapest in your area.
 
#18 ·
EVERYONE

PLEASE, PLEASE read my post again. A lot of you are asking and telling me to do things that I've already covered. I've had horses all my life, and this is the only filly that I've owned that has ever had this issue. I came here to get some input, which I have so far gotten and I really appreciate it!

The hay she is on is very good quality, grown by Oklahoma State University and is fed to their horses in their equine program, if that means anything to you all. I can post more detailed pictures of the hay, but I already know it's good quality.

She has been tube-wormed, checked for parasites, and is on a very strict worming schedule. She isn't wormy.

Ginger gets her hay 24/7. And she is on a ration balancer and black oil sunflower seeds. She also has 24/7 access to salt blocks. When I put her on grain, such as Safechoice, or TC, or Purina, she seems to get skinnier. Odd, isn't it? But, I would like to buy some rice bran to add to her diet as I think that might help. But I just don't know with her.


Here is a picture from today. She seems to look much better to me! But apparently my opinion needs some work...so tell me what you all think! And also, one person said her back is protruding, and it's not. She is kind of slab-sided, and it seems that way in the pictures. I'll take some better full-view pics tomorrow!
 

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#26 ·
EVERYONE

PLEASE, PLEASE read my post again. A lot of you are asking and telling me to do things that I've already covered. I've had horses all my life, and this is the only filly that I've owned that has ever had this issue. I came here to get some input, which I have so far gotten and I really appreciate it!

The hay she is on is very good quality, grown by Oklahoma State University and is fed to their horses in their equine program, if that means anything to you all. I can post more detailed pictures of the hay, but I already know it's good quality.

She has been tube-wormed, checked for parasites, and is on a very strict worming schedule. She isn't wormy.

Ginger gets her hay 24/7. And she is on a ration balancer and black oil sunflower seeds. She also has 24/7 access to salt blocks. When I put her on grain, such as Safechoice, or TC, or Purina, she seems to get skinnier. Odd, isn't it? But, I would like to buy some rice bran to add to her diet as I think that might help. But I just don't know with her.


Here is a picture from today. She seems to look much better to me! But apparently my opinion needs some work...so tell me what you all think! And also, one person said her back is protruding, and it's not. She is kind of slab-sided, and it seems that way in the pictures. I'll take some better full-view pics tomorrow![/QUOTE

]If your hay is "good quality" then why is your vet saying to feed different hay with more protein.

I think lack of protein is your problem. Feeding hay with some seeds in it is not the same as feeding 4or more pds of some sort of grain or pelleted feed.

I have seen horses on a regular worming schedule that have had fecal tests down showing no worms and after 2 died suddenly a necropsy showed them full of worms. So that isn't full proof
 
#19 · (Edited)
This is probably 100% unrelated but have you had her tested for HYPP/know her status?

There's a member on this board who, I believe, had two horses (mother and son) get skinnier and skinnier until they eventually died - even though they were getting plenty of hay and grain. After they each died, I believe it turned out that they were H/H and N/H and their symptoms were actually symptoms of their HYPP... :shock:

So, that might be something to be sure of -if you aren't already- just to be safe.

ETA- I don't think she's deathly skinny or anything -according to the "today" picture- but like some other posters mentioned, the fact that she's not growing but is fluctuating a ton weight-wise concerns me...
 
#20 ·
This is probably 100% unrelated but have you had her tested for HYPP/know her status?

There's a member on this board who, I believe, had two horses (mother and son) get skinnier and skinnier until they eventually died - even though they were getting plenty of hay and grain. After they each died, I believe it turned out that they were H/H and N/H and their symptoms were actually symptoms of their HYPP... :shock:

So, that might be something to be sure of -if you aren't already- just to be safe.
Oh my...well she doesn't go back to any Impressive blood, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I will call my vet in the morning and make an appointment for her to do so- she's already coming out to pull coggins so I'm sure she can do this test as well.

Thank you!
 
#22 ·
Just a thought- Would you all think a probiotic might help her? I don't know why on earth I haven't thought of this! My show goats use to get them all the time to keep their weight up under stress. I'll ask my vet when she comes out though...thanks for any input.
 
#23 ·
Have been having the same problem with our 3 year old, his weight fluctuates too, but he IS growing so have put it down to that.

First pic was taken end of may.

Next pic one month later.

He has had another growth spurt but seems to be putting some weight back on again now, i hate it when you can see his ribs.
 

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#24 ·
The last photo posted by the OP shows the filly at a body score of 5 or 5.5.

I'm a little concerned about the rapid variation in the horse's weight and condition in a fairly short time, but clearly the OP is concerned, asking questions and doing research, which is the appropriate response.

I really can't stress enough what a valuable tool the body score index is. It gives multiple, objective criteria for evaluating weight and condition. Most horsepeople, and I am certainly NO exception, lie to themselves or kid themselves about their horse's weight and condition, or more kindly, don't view it accurately. (Yes, I am big boned, thank you very much! And my air fern easy keeper QHs are "show weight", so there!)

It is a very useful exercise to take the info from the body score index and evaluate your horses with a critical, dispassionate eye.
 
#25 ·
I really can't stress enough what a valuable tool the body score index is. It gives multiple, objective criteria for evaluating weight and condition. Most horsepeople, and I am certainly NO exception, lie to themselves or kid themselves about their horse's weight and condition, or more kindly, don't view it accurately. (Yes, I am big boned, thank you very much! And my air fern easy keeper QHs are "show weight", so there!)
QUOTE]

I am a 'big-boned' girl, even when I was young and thin.....my wrists and ankles measure bigger than smaller framed people. Is there a measurement on a horse that would determine if they are just smaller boned? Or is it all visual?
 
#27 ·
Emilyy, I live in Stillwater and buy my grass hay here too, and it's good hay, I agree with you there. BUT........some horses just don't so well on strictly grass hay. The last pic you put up of your horse looks a whole lot better than the first ones, she's actually at a pretty decent weight. She could use some more but not desperately.

I like to keep my feeding as simple as possible which is why you won't find me feeding 13 different products. I choose Safeguard, Strategy, Omolene 400 and such because they are very balanced and do a good job of meeting the horses requirements.

If your horse loses weight on those products, them I'm willing to BET MONEY that you're not following the feeding directions on the bags.

For a 1,000 lb horse (assuming that's where you want her) you would feed:

Safechoice - 5 to 7.5 lbs per day, (their directions for Performance Ligth Exercise, .5 to .75 per 100 lbs of body weight). That's the original formula not one of the newer specialty formulas.

Strategy - Professional Formula GX - .75 to 1.5% of weight/day = 7.5 lbs - 15 lbs/day

Ultium Competition - 6 lbs to 11.5 lbs per day

Omolene 400 - 13 lbs/day for light work

Omolene 400 is a complete feed and doesn't need to have hay fed with it, which is why is such a good one for putting on weight. When I get a thin horse in, I like to use the 400 and still let them have grass hay as desired, by the time they get to a good weight, I can cut back some on the 400 and feed more hay. Just make sure you don't cut so much that the nutrition balance is upset.

All of these feeds have pre & pro biotics in them, no need to add them or vitamins or minerals. Just salt, feed bucket, hay and water. Very simple.
 
#29 ·
Why is there not a /facepalm smilie on this forum?? Doesn't anybody read any more. The horse is NOT on "hay only"... oh, never mind. I give up.

OP, good luck to you with your hard keeper. Just keep doing what you are doing, working with your vet and slowly upping everything you are giving her until you find the amounts she needs to be fat and slick! :)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
#31 ·
Op- I am also in Ok... Crook I mean Creek County and the feed I have found to be excellent for both my 2 month old colt and my 2 yr old filly is Patriot. I feed the 14/6 and have been using it for a long time. My under sized and under weight 2 yr old is growig like a weed and my colt is tall and at a great weight wih no uh oh he had a growth spurt and looks starved. Patriot has a short list of ingredents and there is several that a lot of people add as supplements. I have tried other feeds and always go back to this!

Your hay looks good, I wouldnt let other worry you about it. I cut hay for a living...lol... And with our extreme lack of rain Im glad you were able to find a good bale!
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#33 ·
Ok from what I've read this filly is not on grain. A ration balancer is not grain. I just went over this with my vet. Also a worming program does not mean she doesn't have worms. Fecal tests are not accurate. Horses don't pass worms in every poo.
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Right-o. They pass worms that are passible in poo.
Some worms, such as small strongyles, do not shed out in manure, so therefore will not be detected in a fecal test. But every worm that DOES shed out in manure, it will test accurately for.
So, they're accurate for what they are designed for, but they aren't 100% accurate for ALL worms. Just like dewormers.
 
#45 ·
Ok powerpac is good. You did a huge tube everyday for 5 days right? That will get rid of the worms that will not show up in a fecal. But it should be done once a year unless she's on a daily dewormer. Add grain to her diet. You need to feed grain PLUS all she can eat hay.
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#58 ·
I deworm twice a year, spring and autumn to kill tape worm and encycsted red worm.
I do fecal counts once in winter and once in summer. and I never use the same wormers twice in a row

This is the way that the top equine vet hospitals in the UK are teaching at the moment as the safest way to worm to get all the worms but not build up resistance in the worms.

We cant use panacur round here as the worms are resistant
 
#59 ·
Well if we had a way to do a fecal that would show all of the worms including encysted strongyles then that would obviously be the best but that is not the case. Also panacur and panacur powerpac are not the same thing which a lot of people seem to get confused about.

But I believe the op in on the right track with getting new food.
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