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My hard keeper is not anymore, help?

3K views 40 replies 14 participants last post by  poppy1356 
#1 ·
So for those that know Lizzy and her story she is now what I am calling fat. She looks pregnant and her neck is huge now. You have to push to feel ribs. Now obviously she still needs muscle as its kinda hard to build muscle on a skinny horse, that is our next project.

But here is my problem, she has gained significant weight in just a week. She was on stall rest for a week due to a slight accident where she decided it was best to trip over a snow mound and drop us into the road. So she banged up her knee a bit, being old the swelling took a bit to go down and with it being so icy but everything melting she stayed in until swelling was completely gone. So she is back out now but shes fat.

I won't be able to do some good riding until all the snow and ice melts which could be a good two weeks yet. So do I cut back on her feed now or wait until we start riding a lot?

She gets about 2lbs of alfalfa pellets, 1oz of her vitamin/min supp, msm, and then about 3-4oz of canola oil and this is all fed twice per day (so double everything for daily value).

Obviously I will be cutting back on the oil. But should I cut back her alfalfa? She otherwise only gets semi-ok grass hay basically free choice. She is stalled from 5pm until about 8am every night until May 1 then she will be out 24/7. Since it is getting pretty darn muddy I don't want her standing in mud all the time so I'm keeping her in the stall at night so her feet can dry out.

And now for pictures. Taken yesterday. Some are some weird angles, she has to watch me all the time so getting her square isn't happening.
 

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#2 ·
I think she looks fine...?

She's needs muscle so I would work her. But, shell loose weight if you don't keep up on her feed.

I wouldn't change her diet at this point.
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#3 ·
i wouldnt change anything. she was just in for a week and not moving around and usual, which could account for some weight gain.
 
#4 ·
Haha it's so hard to capture her actual size in pictures they always make her look skinnier. Wish it worked that way for me lol.

My biggest worry is she put on a lot of weight in the last week and since I won't really be able to ride much for a while yet I don't want her getting any bigger. She is 20 and also an arab that was a broodmare all her life. She used to tear around in the round pen as soon as I stepped in the middle now she is getting lazy and almost looks winded after a couple laps at the trot.

Edit: She doesn't usually move around much outside lol. She much prefers to sleep in the sun and munch on hay all day. Occasionally her and her paddock mate will run a few laps but he is much more fluffy than her so it doesn't last long.
 
#7 ·
*sigh* she's huge I know the pictures aren't showing it very well so for comparison I am posting a picture of her paddock mate who is about 1in shorter than her. He is about as tall and as long as her. He doesn't look overly fat here but I can tell you he is at least 200-300lbs more than she is.
 

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#9 ·
Absolutely no grains or any kind of supplements enter her diet except for vitamin mineral and joint support. She doesn't necissarily need to lose weight but rather not gain any more. She definately has an intolerance to something in pelleted feed, could be the "grains", could be soy and could be flax. Don't know but I also try to feed as natural as possible.

If she gained quite a bit in a week, I'm trying to figure out if I should cut her feed back until I can start riding more?
 
#11 ·
As long as she's inside cut the oil to half, the alfalfa also. The belly is mainly caused by not moving and eating so-so hay. Good hay doesn't give this kind of belly. BUT....good news is, it'll go away once she has better forage and moves.
I don't find her to fat either. Just the belly. You could switch to alfalfa/ timothy or alfalfa/ orchard pellets and give her more of these, to fill her up with low bulk fiber, and hope she eats less of the bulky hay. If you do that, an once of oil a meal will be fine.
 
#13 ·
I can't get better hay :( I can't afford to buy her hay and pay normal board. I won't get a discount either if I buy my own. Her paddock mate is owned by the BM and hopefully we can convince the BO to buy better hay. No better forage to come that I see. She doesn't go to pasture but stays on hay year round.

I hate it really. I don't mind if she increased board so she could buy better hay but I know half the people would piss and moan because quite frankly they are morons. The more I think about the hay the more ****** I get. The hay dealer told the BO that is was awesome hay so she bought it, I feel like that is taking a used car salesman for his word.
 
#12 ·
I don't want her to really lose weight since when she starts working she will need some reserves there but I also don't want her getting bigger. Her topline is the hardest part. She has gotten some nice bulges above her shoulders but still has that dip in her wither and along the spine.

I push those spots on her butt to make her lift her back but she HATES that and has started to not lift her back. It's so hard to properly work her with the snow and now that it's melting it's to slippery to do much at all.
 
#14 ·
I don't find her fat either. She simply needs to be worked to get some muscle tone. I would try to get her out and lunge her. Also, deserthorsewoman wasn't suggesting you go out and buy new hay. She was suggesting you get hay pellets. You can get them at TSC, and really they don't cost all that much. Right now, if anything, she has what you could call a hay belly. But the best medicine for her is to be worked. She needs muscle tone.
 
#16 ·
Sadly she does get lunged. We rode all winter as long as it was above 0 and not too much ice. It's just the last 2-3 weeks that her work has stopped due to the weather. If I could get a break on board I would go out and buy different hay. I know I can find it, the BO just isn't willing to pay for it. And she won't raise board because that will piss off a bunch of people there.

The closest TSC is about an hour out of my way each direction. I get my alfalfa pellets from the local feed store. I can't really feed her more pellets as they need to be soaked and (surprise, more broken stuff) the hydrant in the barn is broken, frozen, whatever no one has come to find the problem, so the person who feeds in morning feeds her out of generosity so I'm not making her haul water from one of the paddocks.

Her belly is out of control, she honestly looks preggo in person. She is eating about 30lbs per day of the hay. We pick through and find the best bales of what we have to give her. I'm just happy she is eating this stuff, the other stuff that we just got rid of she wouldn't touch.
 
#19 ·
Exercise will make it go away. You can't take a horse that has been standing around doing nada and throw them into immediate heavy work though. If her knee is healed, start walking her, halter + lunge line and walk her like a giant dog. It's easier for her to find her footing without a rider plus you'll be on the ground to also navigate her away from slippery patches.

Walks aren't going to rid her of the hay belly or cause a significant increase in muscle but they will get her going so you'll be able to exercise her better once the weather clears up. They're also good to keep her joints moving since she's older for less stocking up/stiffness. Plus as a bonus, walking is good exercise for you so you'll transition back into riding easier too!
 
#20 ·
Work:)
You have a serious case of the winter blues, hun. Used to hit me every year around this time. Winter seemingly endless, the first sunny days messed up by all the mud, horses out of shape, me out of shape. It'll get better, trust me :)
I had high hopes coming to Cali, and now three days of rain and an inch of mud get me all bent out of shape:)
 
#22 ·
Lol yes I'm sick of winter. Up until 3 weeks ago she was ridden a good 3 days a week about 30-60 min. So not a ton but not just sitting around. She was only on stall rest for a week and has been out of work for 3 due to the mud, ice, crap outside stuff we've been having.

I'm not out of shape though, I got a third job cleaning stalls for 6 hours at another barn lol. That is some hard work and I thought I was going to die after the first day but now it's pretty easy.

I try the belly thing, she hates that too. She will lift it a little bit but really hates it.
 
#23 ·
The bloated-looking hay belly from inferior hay is a lot of times caused because the hindgut is having trouble digesting properly. Putting her on a probiotic could help if there is not a way to change her hay. Other than that, your next best medicine is movement, so as much exercise as possible, as much turnout as possible, put small piles of hay around her enclosure to encourage her to move around as much as you can.
 
#24 ·
Just start working her and it'll be fine. I would seriously hesitate touching anything about her food until after you start working her. This is from standing around doing nothing, once her energy requirements go back up, you'll be playing catch-up once again if you lessen her feed now.

I'm not sure what sort of "image" you're expecting from her but she may just be a thicker built Arab who's finally getting "there". My mare was narrow as all get out when I got her (obese though) then she lost weight and got even narrower so I assumed she was just one of "those". However, once I started getting her into more slow-long work and feeding her better (quality hay, high protein because she gets a potbelly when she doesn't get enough protein, etc), she seriously muscled up. She suddenly became this wiiiideeeee muscular machine. And I thought she was going to stay narrow! hahaha
Of course, thinking that this may be a step in her fitness doesn't really include her belly but that's all probably due to the hay she's eating. The rest of her looks perfect. Finally not too skinny (imho, she's always been too skinny before this).


My other thought is that since she was starved for so long, it has probably taken quite a while for her body to build back up it's internal stores. If I remember correctly, she's only been out of starvation "mode" for about a year and half, so it stands to reason that her body may be finally catching up and finally able to get some fat on her bones. It does take about that long for some muscles in the body to rebuild after loss.
 
#25 ·
Just start working her and it'll be fine. I would seriously hesitate touching anything about her food until after you start working her. This is from standing around doing nothing, once her energy requirements go back up, you'll be playing catch-up once again if you lessen her feed now.

I'm not sure what sort of "image" you're expecting from her but she may just be a thicker built Arab who's finally getting "there". My mare was narrow as all get out when I got her (obese though) then she lost weight and got even narrower so I assumed she was just one of "those". However, once I started getting her into more slow-long work and feeding her better (quality hay, high protein because she gets a potbelly when she doesn't get enough protein, etc), she seriously muscled up. She suddenly became this wiiiideeeee muscular machine. And I thought she was going to stay narrow! hahaha
Of course, thinking that this may be a step in her fitness doesn't really include her belly but that's all probably due to the hay she's eating. The rest of her looks perfect. Finally not too skinny (imho, she's always been too skinny before this).


My other thought is that since she was starved for so long, it has probably taken quite a while for her body to build back up it's internal stores. If I remember correctly, she's only been out of starvation "mode" for about a year and half, so it stands to reason that her body may be finally catching up and finally able to get some fat on her bones. It does take about that long for some muscles in the body to rebuild after loss.
Yes she was always too skinny and it took some time to find what really worked for her. I would love for her to be one of the thicker arabs, as I'm 5'8" and she's only 14.1 lol. I didn't worry too much about her muscle before because she had to get healthy before she could build muscle. It has been about a little over a year and half since she was rescued.

Protein - how do I know if she is getting enough for her? Her stall does not smell at all. And the only way I know if they are getting too much is when they have that strong amonia smell to their pee. Her pee only has a bit of smell immediately but quickly dissipates. So could she maybe not have enough protein? Maybe she needs more alfalfa when I put her back into work? I looked into testing the hay but there is like a huge process and it's almost $60 so if someone knows an easier way than the UofM please tell me. I'm guessing the hay is pretty much worthless though. Most of it is way to stemmy.

Come to think of it the belly really got big with this new batch of hay. She had been getting really fluffy green hay, still not great, but it was better than this crap.

Oh and cheapest probiotic to feed? I can get capsules of Florajen for free. They are for humans but could I break one of those open and put in her feed? They have 10 times more good bacteria than yogurt does.
 
#28 ·
I don't know the conversion rate for Florajen. I have my old man on Probios that I get from the feed mill or Tractor Supply for roughly $10 a month. He had years of digestive issues before I put him on them and I could see a marked difference in using them after only a week. So I have become a big fan. That is not to say it will help every horse, and its not an end all be all solution but if it does help even a little, it's truly worth it. Also, I haven't heard of anyone causing problems by adding a probiotic. It's a safe additive without causing a change in energy level, other than just that they FEEL better, etc.
 
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