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Navicular Causing Hoof To Bleed? (Wondering)

This is a discussion on Navicular Causing Hoof To Bleed? (Wondering) within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Bleeding soles in horses
  • Navicular in horses

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    12-03-2011, 01:12 AM
  #11
Banned
Gremmy, my farrier has told me that some people wedge for founder. Which we both agreed seems completely counterproductive and bass-ackwards. But I guess it is, occasionally, done, though obviously it's far more common and useful for navicular cases.

Phantom, does the sole look like this?



     
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    12-03-2011, 01:13 AM
  #12
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremmy    
So they've been running her dead lame all this time? I don't know the barrel racing scene, wouldn't a dead lame horse be disqualified? I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around that; so xrays approx 13 years ago showed coffin bone rotation (founder). Bubba, you have a better handle on shoeing and hoof rehab than me...wedges for a rotated coffin bone? What?

So, mare has coffin bone rotation, uncertain about navicular changes, wedges, by some miracle is not only capable of hobbling around but is raced for 13 years, and now at the age of 28, she can't even stand, and she has bleeding soles, suggesting the possibility of the coffin bone having penetrated the sole.

Wow. Honestly Phantomcolt, I know they're your friends and all, but that is outright abuse. I would be making an anonymous call to the proper authorities and getting that mare away from those people and at the very least out of her misery. Founder that severe is bad enough, I'm not sure what the prognosis is when the sole has started to bleed like that (thinking of how bad a simple nail puncture can be, founder will not be the only thing to worry about). Given her age as well... poor thing.
Sorry we posted nearly the same time.

She hasn't been dead lame though that's the weird thing. She only started showing lameless this past April. It's strange. They buted her up so they could run her without her showing too much of a limp. She'd show a limp at a walk and trot but full out you couldn't tell unless you knew the horse really well.

Part I bolded in your post is what worries me the most because I know if this is the case they WILL NOT put her down. They don't like putting horses down and wait till the absolute last minute.

I know, They're the type of friends that you LOVE sometimes but then they go and do something stupid so you just hate them. They're also the type that if you mention something about one of the horses and it's not the same as their opinion they will set out to make your statement sound so ridiculous and that their way is the way to go.
If I did call Animal control I don't think there is much they would do. The horses have food, water, and shelter. Not trying to defend them it's just the truth.

Like I said I'm just trying to learn. The situation really isn't up to me but if she were mine I'd never have raced her and if she got this bad I'd put her down.
     
    12-03-2011, 01:18 AM
  #13
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
Gremmy, my farrier has told me that some people wedge for founder. Which we both agreed seems completely counterproductive and bass-ackwards. But I guess it is, occasionally, done, though obviously it's far more common and useful for navicular cases.

Phantom, does the sole look like this?



No bubba the entire sole is literally purple like a bruise. And when he rasped they said he took two swipes at the edge and she started bleeding.

I'll attach a picture of what they told me it looked like the area outlined in purple was a dark purple and the area I edged with red was where she was bleeding.

There was nothing open, it looked like a normal sole just dark purple.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg br_front.jpg (77.8 KB, 153 views)
     
    12-03-2011, 01:19 AM
  #14
Yearling
Thin bruised and possibly abscessed soles, unhealthy feet and a farrier that may not know much about how to judge solar depth. Sounds like she needs some knowledgeable rehabilitation and some owners who care enough to go the extra mile.
     
    12-03-2011, 01:21 AM
  #15
Banned
This does sound a little more like bruising now. Excessive bruising. Need to get her soles up off the ground, and put her on some bute in the mean time.
     
    12-03-2011, 01:22 AM
  #16
Started
Trinity I agree!
     
    12-03-2011, 01:23 AM
  #17
Started
So excessive bruising could cause a horse's hoof to bleed at the very edges if it were to be rasped?

Sorry this is a learning opportunity for me, I figured hey something I've never heard of might wanna ask the forumers about it to see if I learn somehting new.
     
    12-03-2011, 01:25 AM
  #18
Green Broke
(Warning, slightly off topic)

I have noticed that people seem to confuse navicular with laminitis/founder all the time. Even the people at my local feed store. They're like "too much sugar in feed can cause navicular." Um, not really! And my best friend too. "Can't put XYX horse on pasture because he will get navicular."

Now navicular isn't an easy disease to understand. But the basics are that it refers to heel pain in the horse, and it can be caused by arthritic changes to the navicular bone. The predisposition to navicular can be hereditary due to conformation.

Laminitis (inflamation of the sensitive lamini) can be cause by both excess sugar and/or concussion to the feet (also retained placenta in mares).

Founder is the rotation of the coffin bone that can result from severe cases of laminitis. Think of it as the internal structures of the hoof separating from the hoof wall because the lamini have come apart. Therefore the hoof wall can no longer support the coffin bone/internal structures like it should.

That is my laymen's farrier science lesson for the day.

To Phantomcolt18, bless you for trying to help this horse. Hugs!
     
    12-03-2011, 01:30 AM
  #19
Started
[QUOTE=trailhorserider;1252507
To Phantomcolt18, bless you for trying to help this horse. Hugs![/QUOTE]

I hate to say it(this is going to make me sound SO cold hearted but I swear I am NOT) but my reasons for posting this wasn't to help her because there's nothing I could do. I saw an opportunity for a learning experience and I took it. If I could help her I would but I in reality can't and to be honest it's not my business I just thought it was interesting/scary and wanted to know more about it to prevent it from happening to any of my future horses
     
    12-03-2011, 01:33 AM
  #20
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomcolt18    
So excessive bruising could cause a horse's hoof to bleed at the very edges if it were to be rasped?
I would think it could. But whatever the cause the soles are too thin and the horse doesn't have enough protection for the internal structures of the feet. I would think a horse bruised that badly is at risk for abcesses too.

She definitely needs some healing time. And some hoof growth to protect her feet. If it's just bruising (and not founder) then she just needs some time to heal on a forgiving surface. Hopefully the owners will not push her hard.
     

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