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post #21 of 203 Old 10-09-2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by okan View Post
Laminitis Hastal
this is in my language. I read it. Also send main them to explain me terms. What I understand from from page is

1- Stop the reason: The reason can be food? So I have to change food?
2- Fix the barn: Mean I have to make sof floor so horse can lie down.
3- Straw: I have to gvie horse straw
4-Less food: I have to give horse less food?
5- sulfate : do not know what sulfate in medicine but I will check from pharmacy.
6- antibiotics : Penisilin?
7- aspirin: Is it same as we use? and dose? it does not say. This is to help blood get flowing.

these I understand from page. May be you can add more on it? Or shedule it for me.

I do not know dosages.
1. Some cattle feeds contain a medication called an ionophore (i.e. monensin or rumensin). Ionophores are deadly to horses in very low levels, thus feeding cattle feed that contains an ionophore to a horse could be a devastating mistake. If your country requires good labels on the food bags, it may tell you if these chemicals are in the cow food.

2. If you can put something on the barn floor to make it softer, the horse will be more comfortable. Many people use wood shavings, straw made from wheat, or even sand. Shavings that are soft and look like this (about 13-14 cm)

3. Straw is for bedding. It is made of wheat and is too tough to feed horses. Hay is made from tall fine grass that is cut and dried. It is smaller than straw and better for the horse to eat.

4. Your horses look in good condition. I would follow the instructions in the laminitis information sent to you.

5. Unfortunately, the diseases and medicines may have different names there. It may be hard for us to give you good directions from here. I don't know what laminitis is called in Turkey. You will have to talk with your vet. Very bad cases will change the position of the bone in the foot. This may cause the pony to hurt for a very long time...or forever.

6. There are many antibiotics. Penicillin is only one kind. What the horse needs is an anti inflammatory to stop the swelling

Emergency treatment for laminitis

7. Horse aspirin mostly used is phenylbutazone. I don't know how easy it is to get in Turkey. It is made for horses. I would talk to your vet and ask him to find a dosage. Here is some information on aspirin with horses

Aspirin | EquiMed - Horse Health Matters

I really hope this helps you!
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post #22 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 12:24 AM
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Hello Okan,

Welcome. Sorry about the circumstances of your welcome though! Where abouts are you from, on the chance that someone here knows of any good horse vets or farriers(nail men) in your area? Did the vet give you any pain or anti-inflammation medication for him?

Looking at those photos & hearing the story, there's not enough information to be sure, but unfortunately it does seem your horse has suffered chronic(long term) laminitis with mechanical changes - the pedal bone(P3) has 'rotated' in relation to the hoof capsule & has 'dropped' so it is very low in the hoof - that flat sole would be very thin. It looks as though the left front is worse than the right?

I have drawn on a couple of your pictures to get/give a better idea. The green lines show *approximately* how the hoof should be - straight line from hairline(top of nail) to bottom. The angle the top of the nail is growing is most likely to be close to where it needs to be and parallel (in line with) P3. The curved red line is where it looks like the hoof wall is actually growing. The blue line on the sole(underneath) picture shows approximately where I would trim the walls back to, on an angle from the ground. I am not sure how accurate my idea of them is(?) without better pictures & different angles though & if you would like to look at the link below this post and send some more hoof pictures, we may be able to help advise you better.

It looks like it has been a long term problem - at least a lot of months if not much more. That the horse wasn't obviously suffering until after the last farrier(nail cutter) came doesn't necessarily mean it was his fault at all. Horses can put up with a lot of discomfort without being obvious and perhaps it was coincidence that it became too much for him then, or perhaps something happened to cause a strong 'attack' of the 'disease' then. Perhaps the farrier didn't do anything wrong but just the trimming was enough to be too much. But if the farrier cut into the sole(bottom of the foot) at all - it is already too thin to protect inside foot - then he may have caused further problems.

Likewise, depending on what the 'cow food' is, it or the rest of his diet may not be an issue, but as with ourselves, we can usually eat bad food for many years before we develop serious health problems from it, so just because he's apparently been alright until recently doesn't mean the food is alright. If the food has grain in it I would not feed, if it has added ingredients like medecine or vitamins for cows I would not feed. If it is just chopped hay(dry grass) or such it may be perfectly good. We need to know what it is.

I know you already appreciate this, but it's a very serious condition your horse is in and if at all possible, urgent and well qualified help should be found. I would also advise x-rays of his feet if possible. That said, assuming that's just not available, it may be possible for you to heal this horse, depending on how much damage the horse has already sustained from the 'disease' and what you're able to do. It is not something I think it's a good idea for horse owners to attempt to treat themselves without experts present, let alone purely by internet advice, but if you have no other option...

In the meantime, the advice of soft footing is good. You may find that using adhesive tape to stick polystyrene or something like that to his feet will give him enough comfort and padding to stand up and walk around. He needs his nails trimmed as soon as possible, because the walls(outer 'nails') being long will cause more damage and pain when walked on. So long as it is only the outside wall that's trimmed, to sole level and with the long toe shortened, without any tools even touching the sole, this will help and won't hurt him. After his big trim, it is best if he can be trimmed just a little but often - every week or 2 - until his feet are healthier, so that they are kept very short and mechanical problems - walls too long - don't make him worse.

Of course, learning as much as you can is also important, especially as it seems it will be mostly up to yourself to try to get the horse well and you want to learn enough so you have some idea of whether the advice you get is safe Some more internet sources for information/help...
Pete Ramey hoof care laminitis founder horse navicular disease thrush equine foot development farrier Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Information Katy Watts |

Oh and something you may be trying not to think about... while I definitely believe there is hope, depending on how much damage to the bone in the hoof, the horse may not ever recover enough to be out of pain. It is also very possible that the horse will never recover enough to be useful. It is also important to consider how much pain the horse is in and how long it might take to get the horse better, assuming you can. In my personal opinion I don't think it is reasonable to allow a horse to continue suffering too much or for too long, so you will need to consider that ethical question too.
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post #23 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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thank you for your help. Just to inform you.
I tell you guys what I am doing.
1-Today early morning I ordered horse food. I only find 4 box the man will get me more.
2- I ordered grinded hay so I can give it him to eat.
3- I let the horse out so he can lie on sand outside.
4- I ordered hay so I can make bed in the barn. ( I read that horse should not walk to much)
5-I speak with nail man and he will come to me so I can show him what you say me and we discuss what we will do.
6- I speak with the vet that seen the horse before and he said when he checked it it was not laminitis and it was tendon swelling. I tell him to come and check again gues the answer. He is bussy these days and tomorrow the weather will be raining. I tell him what I guess is laminitis. He said if laminitis we should kill the horse ( I want to kill him. I will never ever call him again).
7- I call another vet and tell her what happened. She tryed to give me medicine names and tell what to do. Can you belive that? without seen the the horse . Anyway
8- I make the second vet come and see horse. Nail man will be there tomorrow too. Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation. I have no clue what it is

I have to wait till tomorrow. I am really angry. How come these peoples become vet.
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post #24 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 10:04 AM
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Hi Plan,

How do people become a need to understand that vet school cannot teach everything in just a few years. They learn the basics in school, which is already a lot, and then specialize in a type of animal. A horse specialist is what you need now. Making a diagnosis on the telephone is the same we did. Symptoms of laminitis are pretty clear. But, it is an emergency, so the vet should be coming right away and then work together with your farrier.

You are doing the right things to make the pony as comfortable as possible. And by learning all about the disease.
And now loosie has found this thread so you have a lot of help!
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post #25 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 02:24 PM
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bless you you are trying so hard for this little pony .. ((((HUGS)))) the people here have given great advice I hope that the vet you have coming out can help some more. Your horses are very pretty.

Don't Flatter yourself Cowboy I was looking at your Horse
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post #26 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 02:56 PM
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it must be very frustrating to deal with all this without someone there, beside you, to help. How very frustrating!

As for killing the horse, it may actual be necessary. If the horse does have laminitis, and the bone inside the hoof has rotated a lot, then the pain will be horrible for the horse, and it may not be something you can fix. We cannot say for sure , yet. But, it is true that if the damage is bad, you may have to consider humanely killing the pony.
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post #27 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 03:44 PM
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OKAN-- please listen to Loosie
if this is affecting more than 1 hoof/nail than chances are your horse has foundered (laminites) and is very painful for a horse. it takes a very long time to recover, some horses take years. depending on how bad it is you may have to put him down. I would ask your vet to take x-rays of the hoof and ask them to contact a horse vet. This is very serious !

If your horse is favoring 1 hoof/nail than it is possible its an abcess and should be soaked with warm water and epsom salts. An abcess is very common.

please have your vet contact a horse vet to consult.

Glad your putting your horses on horse feed (hay) is very important- no mold or dust.
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post #28 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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i make the horse barn floor good. put lots of hay on floor. tonight i give him horse food. he lie on now hays. tomorrow vet will come. and new nail man will be here. i clean fronth legs nails bottom again. i touch nails they are cold. but legs are little hot. 4 of them. i wait tomorrow.
thanks for all your help.

i will get in touch with you guys

thank you
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post #29 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by okan View Post
Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation. I have no clue what it is
Hoof inflammation may just be another name for laminitis.
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post #30 of 203 Old 10-10-2012, 11:43 PM
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Okan, I first have to say you sound like a very caring owner, trying very hard to do what you can for your horse in a VERY difficult situation.

Originally Posted by okan View Post
5-I speak with nail man and he will come to me so I can show him what you say me and we discuss what we will do.
Great. If you could post some good hoof pictures, I could give you some more specific suggestions to discuss with him... but not sure i can do that by tomorrow(depends, I think your 'tomorrow' is later than mine!) - got to go to work again shortly & it's my daughter's birthday... I'll do it as soon as possible when i see your pics though.

6- I speak with the vet that seen the horse before and he said when he checked it it was not laminitis and it was tendon swelling. I tell him to come and check again gues the answer. He is bussy these days and tomorrow the weather will be raining. I tell him what I guess is laminitis. He said if laminitis we should kill the horse
The horse may have tendon swelling too, but I am sure it is chronic laminitis/founder that is the major problem. Unfortunately until recent years it was common for even experienced horse vets to consider the condition 'incureable' so yes, killing the horse was the most humane option. These days however, it is common for even very severe cases such as it seems yours is, to be cured. *BUT as I said before, it depends and you may well have to consider that option.

7- I call another vet and tell her what happened. She tryed to give me medicine names and tell what to do. Can you belive that? without seen the the horse . Anyway
I don't think that is good practice either, but considering everything & how much pain the horse is in, some anti-inflammatory medecine (Phenylbutazone or such) could be a good 'first aid' measure. **I am not a vet, don't think this drug or others is good to use without (knowledgeable) vet advice usually, would not advise using it for more than a week or so(there are side effects to long term use), but it is one that (knowledgeable) equine vets regularly proscribe in this sort of situation.

Second vet says it can be hoof inflammation.
And the rest. 'Laminitis' means inflammation of the sensitive tissue inside the hoof. When this happens it damages the laminae, which are the connective tissue between the nail and the inside foot, which causes them to separate if the problem goes on for a long time, which is why your horse's feet look like 'slippers'.
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Last edited by loosie; 10-10-2012 at 11:45 PM.
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