new farrier. how did he do??
   

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new farrier. how did he do??

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  • "ralph casey" bad opinion
  • Long toes farrier good bad

 
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    09-30-2011, 08:33 PM
  #1
Green Broke
new farrier. how did he do??

Ok so we tried a new farrier out and omg he was complete CRAP. Didn't roll the toes and left them toooo long. It's been 7 weeks since their last trim before these pictures.. its nuts how terrible their feet look. How do you think they look after the new farrier? Granted this is the first time this farrier has done their feet. He is a journeyman II farrier so that's good. And he comes with over 400 clientel so he has good hear say about him.
Here are the befoe and after pictures of everyones feet... granted they were BAD before because of that **** varrier.

Adelaide BEFORE


Adelaide AFTER the first one if of her 1 black hoof.





Baby BEFORE. The last farrier left her toes long as you can tell..which REALLY bugged me.




Baby AFTER
They still looks a teensy bit long, but I think he was afraid of taking to much off. We will see how he does in 7 weeks and see if they look a bit better.


     
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    09-30-2011, 08:37 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Sparta BEFORE


Sparta AFTER



Carmen BEFORE




     
    09-30-2011, 08:40 PM
  #3
Green Broke
Carmen AFTER her feet were baaadddd. And we started running out of camera battery so not as many pics





Skip BEFORE I decided to start the journey of taking him barefoot. And so far he is doing well :)



Skip AFTER sadly we ran out of batterly life so its the only after shot we got of his = /
     
    09-30-2011, 10:22 PM
  #4
Banned
Angles are still pretty bad. Long toes, under-run heels. How do the soles look?
     
    09-30-2011, 10:59 PM
  #5
Green Broke
Soles looked decent, but I figured comming from a bad farrier that had done 3 trims on them, its going to take this guy at least 3 trims to get them back on track. Is that good reasoning or should he have gotten it right on the first go round?
     
    09-30-2011, 11:12 PM
  #6
Banned
I'm not a farrier...but seems to me more progress could have been made.
     
    10-01-2011, 12:38 AM
  #7
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
Angles are still pretty bad. Long toes, under-run heels. How do the soles look?
I agree 100%. I'm no farrier either..but those toes seem especially long and the angles too low with underrun heels. Your first horse seems to have especially pointed toes like witch shoes kind of pointy. I like my hooves to have much less toe and rolled at the same time. You'll get a lot of great feedback from loosie. I'm not a Farrier either but those feet just don't look great. They are really forward looking to me..
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    10-01-2011, 01:12 AM
  #8
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilkitty90    
soles looked decent, but I figured comming from a bad farrier that had done 3 trims on them, its going to take this guy at least 3 trims to get them back on track. Is that good reasoning or should he have gotten it right on the first go round?

The "before" pics present nothing I'd be proud of but the after shots, particularly the shoeing work, is little better.

Biggest problem in both before and after is failure to address dorsal/palmar distortion of the hoof capsule. Those pics presenting the "after" shoe work I would grade as "poor" at best. The hooves left bare are slightly better.


You mention that the first farrier is a jouneyman II level certification. Important note for all readers.

A "journeyman II" is nomenclature used by the BWFA (brotherhood of working farriers). This is NOT the same "journeyman" certification a farrier earns from the AFA (American Farrier's Association). There's a BIG difference. The BWFA is an organization started by Ralph Casey down in Georgia. To say their certifications are questionable would be an understatement. In my opinion, the ONLY credible certification offerings for farriers in the United States are presented by the AFA, the Guild of Professional Farriers and the NB ELPO group.

While there are competent BWFA certified farriers ( I know a few), their competency has little or nothing to do with the BWFA.

I think the toughest part of picking farriers is owner knowledge of good versus mediocre versus poor work. Most owners simply don't have a good understanding of what constitutes quality work. To be honest, I think a lot of farriers struggle with this too. I know I had a lot of problems until I started traveling to find guys that could help me understand the nuances of quality work and how to deliver on that quality. I still struggle every day with delivering the best quality I can but at least I now have a better understanding of the basics. While these won't win any awards they might give you some sense of what to look for in basic quality workmanship.

Shoe examples...











Barefoot...






The shoe should fit the non-distorted foot. Put the metal where you want the foot to be; not necessarily where the foot is.

High nails are good nails. Nails should reach up about 1/3 the height of the hoof wall. While not always possible, it's a good goal, lessons the chance of a pulled shoe and lessons the damage should a horse pull a shoe. Getting good nails is really tough and takes a LOT of practice. With some feet, it just isn't possible but one should still make every effort.

Caudal support is important, both in length and width. Slight expansion should be allowed for.

Clip fit and nail clinches should be close or fitted into the wall. Hot fitting helps accomplish this. So does a clinch gouge.

A slight radius of the distal wall is useful in preventing chipped feet on a barefoot horse but don't get carried away with the "mustang roll" thing. Leave enough distal wall to accommodate shoes/nailing should the horse need it later.

Dress the walls! Remove dorsal dishing and any flares at the quarters. Try to achieve a reasonably straight hoof/pastern angle. Not always possible, dependent upon conformation of the animal, but it's a good goal and delivers optimal bio-mechanical efficiency. This is one area where I see a lot of farriers and trimmers failing to meet minimum.

Spend some time looking at the shape/circumference of the coronary and comparing it to the distal wall/whiteline of the hoof. While the coronary is smaller in circumference, it does define the shape of the distal hoof. The hoof is essentially a geometric cone and should reflect the straight line growth and structural integrity of that dimension.

Does that help?

Cheers,
Mark
     
    10-01-2011, 08:03 AM
  #9
Green Broke
Wow that was packed with information, and your right it is HARD to find a decent farrier. The first one we used was pretty decent, but he hit horses with his tools, such as the hammer and rasp, up under the belly, so we quit using him. The 2nd guy shoed all horses super long in the toe, the next guy smoked pot on the job and did a REALLY crappy job as the before pictures show.. this guy so far is the best we can find thus far. And I believe his barefoto work is better than his shoeing because he is a barefoot trimmer, though he has done shoes. And a little background on him, he has been shoeing since he was 12 years old and he's now 46, I didn't ask if he was AFA certified but I definitely will! So this guy should be a no go? I think we will have to keep using him until we can find a better farrier, but I will point out what you guys have said and see if he will correct the problem himself after being presented with the information.
     
    10-01-2011, 08:20 AM
  #10
Weanling
You can go to the afa website and get a list of Farriers certified by them per state you live in. However at the same time a certification doesn't always make the Farrier. I switched carriers because I had heard he hit horses (not mine probably because he knows I would hit him and my gelding stands like a saint even when be shouldn't) he left high heels and long toes and refused to pull shoes and go barefoot like I wanted. I found my current farrier by Google. He isn't on the afa. He's been to school but I couldn't recite his credentials. His website had a testimony page and I emailed him pictures to see what he would do differently.
I think your best option to find a good Farrier is educate yourself on what a proper hoof should look like, familiarize yourself with the terms used and call out or send the after pics to a farrier and ask what they would do differently. You already have one opinion. A real solid one. Now you can see what people say that you call to see how much they know and what they would do.
That's what I did anyway, and man I tell you when you find a great farrier it is SO nice. I've switched Farriers and now 8 other horses where I board has switched from the guy I had used (he's friends with the BO and everyone defaulted to him) to the farrier I now use. Good luck! And I wouldn't say you can't find a new Farrier by the time they need another reset. You have the advantage of weeks before they really need done again.
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