New X-rays, What do you see?
   

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New X-rays, What do you see?

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  • Can you see signs of foundering in horses on xrays
  • What rays do you see with

 
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    09-16-2011, 08:45 PM
  #1
Banned
New X-rays, What do you see?

My 9 year old mare. As a yearling she tried to run through a cattle guard and pretty much ripped her foot off. We bought her as a two year old under the agreement that if she wasn't sound in 6 months they'd buy her back. Well, obviously after that we were irrevocably in love with her and doing all we could to figure out out to make her more comfortable. Obviously we have know we'll never ride her, and we're fine with her being and expensive pasture ornament. I want to make it clear that if this severely affected quality of her life she would already have been put down. She limps, but I've never seen her generally in pain, she has never missed a meal or the chance to buck or run. Vet said x-ray are virtually unchanged since the last. I honestly just want to hear what everyone sees, everyones opinions. Please, If you have anything negative to say keep it semi polite, I do understand this is a forum so of course any opinions are welcome.

*I know her toes are long in the x-ray but her hoofs grow extremely fast (this was 6 weeks after last farrier visit) and our farriers were standing their as the vet took the x-rays, and trimmed her up right after he left.


     
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    09-16-2011, 09:41 PM
  #2
Trained
Now I can't read an x-ray at all, but what I see is the heel may be too high, the toe too long (as you mentioned) and she is standing unevenly -- due to uneven trim? Due to pain? Also, with a large grain of salt, is that bone deterioration in the back of her P3? Is this possibly a club foot as the angle of her pastern is very steep as well?

Has a local been given to try to isolate if the pain is in her foot, or her pastern, or higher up? Please post pics of her post-trim feet and conformation shots.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:16 PM
  #3
Super Moderator
What you appear to have is a 'founder' situation. She has severe rotation of P3. It needs to be stabilized or it could come down through the sole of her foot. It looks pretty severe. I also see a lot of calcium on her long and short pastern bones (both P2 and P1), but that is minor compared to the rotation of the Coffin Bone (P3).

Could you take photos of her hoof as she stands? Did your farrier have any suggestions after he saw her x-rays? Did the Vet take a x-ray from the front looking down? That view would also be helpful. You need a really good corrective shoer or a really, really good barefoot trimmer. Both are hard to find that can deal with a hoof in this bad a shape.

My first guess (without seeing her hoof) would be to get some support under the frog and heel. With all of the weight on her long toes, she just keeps pushing her P3 farther down through her hoof. As you can see, her Coffin bone is rotated 12 - 15 degrees away from her hoof wall. They should be firmly attached to each other and parallel from the top to the bottom of her hoof.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:24 PM
  #4
Banned
Six weeks or not, I think you need a new farrier. It's not just the length but the angle and slippering that's very bad, and can't be helping matters in the slightest.

Now, for the radiographs, I am NOT a vet or farrier, but I'm going to give it a go, and you tell me if I'm right.

I see sidebone developing. Is that from soft tissue injury? Also, her legs are crooked--conformational shortcomings? Joints don't "line up." What is with the ballooning-out areas of the pastern bone on the lateral (left) side of the second view? In the first view, is that the same thing on the front (right)? It looks like an arthritic lip. Ringbone? Her coffin seems to have an excessive angle to it, but I'd be willing to blame some of that on your farrier, as her heels are way too high. Has she foundered in the past?

Edit: Just saw Cherie's post. Maybe a great minds thing, maybe not....
     
    09-16-2011, 10:26 PM
  #5
Banned
She does have clubbed feet but not from the injury itself, its from years of bad shoeing we thought was helping her (natural balance). If kept her comfortable, but kept any progress that could have been made early on from happening and messed her up in the long run. We are slowly trying to take her heal down without causing her soreness (2 years in the process of that).
The reason it may look uneven is because the x-rays weren't taken at the office, but rather with a transportable x-ray machine, maybe that could have caused the way she is standing. Or possibly because she was standing without shoes and is very sore without them.
As for the deterioration, I honestly don't know. The vet did mention the onset of arthritis, and a couple of years ago we were told her bones had grown deformed because of the injury being so early on in her life. Maybe that's it?
As for pain, she's very, very rarely in pain so extreme she needs to be medicated, though she is on a low dosage of pain medication that is in the only supplement she takes that we swear by. She never has problems walking, trotting, cantering or running though her gaits are different, stiffer and like I said she does limp. She's has had abcesses in the past, and and thrush rather recently and those are the only times we've had to use pain meds to help her out, and the only time any vet has recommended we use pain killers.

I'll try and remember to take pictures tomorrow of her hoofs.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:32 PM
  #6
Banned
This is the only hoof picture I have on hand, and for sure not the best. From last farrier visit (6 weeks).

And the only rather good conformational shot I have on hand, from early this year. Very short, upright pasterns and littler bone to her legs.

And no, we have never had a foundering problem.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:36 PM
  #7
Banned
Why are her feet taped?

I just looked her up on your profile and it said she had "mild laminitis"--there's your founder and rotation, I'd say.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:42 PM
  #8
Banned
She has padding that go between shoes and silicone goes between to keep out rocks, water, etc. The tapes left on for 2 days afterwards to let the silicone set up properly than taken off. That is why she developed thrush recently because the silicone came out.
Please excuse my ignorance about this but how is founder related exactly? We know she has laminitis, mild at that, and has rotation so were does the founder come in because its never been mentioned.
     
    09-16-2011, 10:46 PM
  #9
Banned
Another question, you mentioned soft tissue damage. As far as we know, for the year between the injury and until we bought her she was turned out on pasture, no farrier work, no vet treatment at the time of the injury. Could walking around on the injury when there was no hoof cause the tissue damage your talking about?
     
    09-16-2011, 11:02 PM
  #10
Banned
Laminitis is inflammation of the laminae of the hoof. It caused the coffin bone to separate from the surrounding tissues. When the coffin bone sinks or rotates, the clinical term is founder. Although in common usage, a lot of people, including some vets, use the two terms interchangeably. I've found farriers to be far more specific in their language.

I wonder if your farrier could use some kind of antimicrobial treatment or pad under the silicone to prevent the thrush problems.

I mentioned soft tissue because I misread the OP and thought she was just now a two-year-old, and I couldn't see how a horse that young could develop sidebone without some kind of serious problem. But it makes more sense with her being nine, and just chronic concussion or whatever. Though yes, if she was walking on her hoof wrong, or even in the initial hoof-tearing injury, that could definitely be enough to cause significant soft tissue damage.
     

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