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New X-rays, What do you see?

This is a discussion on New X-rays, What do you see? within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Lipping of the coffin joint
  • How much rotation of p3 is too much in club footed horse

 
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    09-17-2011, 12:03 AM
  #11
Super Moderator
It is hard to believe that she is 'reasonably' sound. The 'clubbed feet' explain the rotation of her P3. Many club footed horses have severe rotation. It means that you may well not be able to do much with her problems.

I have never been able to lower the heels on a mature horse with clubbed feet. Any time I tried, they went lame and we had to let them stand at their natural angle. I have a mare with an 80 degree angle on one foot. Her feet were normal until she was almost 2. She was briefly lame and from that point on, her right front got more and more clubbed looking. We had her x-rayed and she had a little rotation. Vet said to try lowering her heel and the instant she went lame we were to stop lowering her heel. Well, she went lame right away, so she has an 80 degree perfectly sound foot.

This mare has so many conformation problems, it is hard to say what caused what. I would say that the upright pasterns and clubbed feet are not related to the injury. When both feet are clubbed and both pasterns are that upright, it is usually from nutritional deficiencies during pregnancy and as a foal or are inherited from bloodlines known to produce bad legs and feet.

Her knees (or at least her left knee) is a poster child for an off-set cannon or bench knee as it is sometimes called. This is a major inherited conformation fault.
     
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    09-17-2011, 12:10 AM
  #12
Banned
Ah yes, the makes a whole lot of sense with me, foundering has always stood out in my mind has improper feeding.
The silicone generally stays put, but we had so many wet days in the last 2 weeks that it slipped, so now we have it on hand in case it does happen again.
And for walking on her foot wrong all these years, yes she has. I'm not going to lie and beat around the bush about it, we, our farriers and vet does see it, but its not because of our current farriers. 6 years of improper, horrible shoeing takes a long time to fix. We have to be very careful on how much heel/toe comes off at one time or else she'll be lamed up for weeks. It's been a very slow process trying to fix her, but if I remember right she's gone from pretty much three inches of heel and no toe to a something that looks like a hoof, with toes that grow to faster than what is needed.
     
    09-17-2011, 12:15 AM
  #13
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
It is hard to believe that she is 'reasonably' sound. The 'clubbed feet' explain the rotation of her P3. Many club footed horses have severe rotation. It means that you may well not be able to do much with her problems.

I have never been able to lower the heels on a mature horse with clubbed feet. Any time I tried, they went lame and we had to let them stand at their natural angle. I have a mare with an 80 degree angle on one foot. Her feet were normal until she was almost 2. She was briefly lame and from that point on, her right front got more and more clubbed looking. We had her x-rayed and she had a little rotation. Vet said to try lowering her heel and the instant she went lame we were to stop lowering her heel. Well, she went lame right away, so she has an 80 degree perfectly sound foot.

This mare has so many conformation problems, it is hard to say what caused what. I would say that the upright pasterns and clubbed feet are not related to the injury. When both feet are clubbed and both pasterns are that upright, it is usually from nutritional deficiencies during pregnancy and as a foal or are inherited from bloodlines known to produce bad legs and feet.

Her knees (or at least her left knee) is a poster child for an off-set cannon or bench knee as it is sometimes called. This is a major inherited conformation fault.

I've been led to understand buy some respectable vets that her knees and cannon problems are because of the fact she had no proper vet treatment or farrier work when it happened and grew deformed to compensate. As for the clubbed feet, as I've said, she didn't have clubbed feet it was shoeing that did it because it made her comfortable for a short bit- worst mistake we've made. Its really messed her up in the long run.
     
    09-17-2011, 12:29 AM
  #14
Banned
Quick shots from her as a three year old(no conformational), in the very beginning of natural balance. Are the conformational faults as bad? I fully admit to not having the best eye with conformation, but to me her legs seem a great deal straighter than, then they do in the pictures I posted before that are current.





     
    09-17-2011, 01:39 AM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukassa    
My 9 year old mare. As a yearling she tried to run through a cattle guard and pretty much ripped her foot off.
High ringbone.

Low ringbone.

Bony changes of the navicular and coffin bones as well as the extensor process.

Lipping of the coffin bone.

Side bone.

Articular coffin fracture.

Possible tendon calcification or floating chip just below the sesmoids. (could be mud as well)

Possible infectious arthritis of the coffin joint.(trauma)

Mechanical rotation of coffin bone.

Lack of sole depth.

Flexor deformity (shortening).

Be happy w/ anything that is in the ballpark of mild lameness to intermittent soundness.
     
    09-17-2011, 10:28 AM
  #16
Weanling
Agree with most of what Bntnail shared. Few of the problems presented in the radiographs can be "fixed". Bone remodeling is forever.

Comfort is the goal and best nominal hope.

Focus on phalanx/hoof capsule alignment and sole depth. The "high heel, no toe" you described earlier is correct for this horse. Reduce as much DDFT pull and toe leverage as possible.

Generating sole depth will depend largely on any remaining functionality of the vascular bed. A venogram would provide a baseline for future reference.

Silicone is a poor choice for this horse; doesn't take two days to setup and should not require duct tape left on that long to address. A softer impression material or pour-in pad would better serve this horses need. Silicone is too firm. Include an antimicrobial to avoid soft tissue intrusion by opportunistic bacteria.

Frog support is an important aspect of management in a case like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukassa    
... And no, we have never had a foundering problem.
Yes, you have. Your horse is currently "foundered". Chronic, mechanical laminitis. Shoeing protocol should include management for that condition.

Medial/lateral displacement of distal interphalangeal joint is significant. Wolff's law of bone remodeling intervened and remodeled the condyles to accommodate that imbalanced load effect. Shoe for medial support as much as possible.

Yep... she's a train wreck and been that way for a long time. It will take some pretty creative (translation: expensive) management just to keep her pasture comfortable.

Heartbar shoe; elevation as necessary to assure post-trim phalangeal alignment; heavy roll at the toe. Soft to medium pour-in pad with copper sulfate crystals in back half of foot. Short term Magic Cushion in front half to encourage sole growth. Mesh and leather to hold the whole thing together until some improvement in sole depth followed by long term full pour-in pad (vettec soft with antimicrobials). If the skills are there, a roller motion (banana) shoe with frog support might be a better long term solution than a generic heartbar. Let's the horse find it's own best comfort caudal elevation.

Best luck and, as always....

Cheers,
Mark
     
    09-17-2011, 07:53 PM
  #17
Banned
Hypothetically, experts, would this mare be a candidate for a tenotomy, or is she too old and/or the damage too severe?
     
    09-18-2011, 12:28 AM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba13    
Hypothetically, experts, would this mare be a candidate for a tenotomy, or is she too old and/or the damage too severe?
Might start with a check ligament desmotomy first. Tenotomy, dependent upon degree of change after desmotomy. Better to let a vet make those calls. Anything that will build sole depth would be high on my list or priorities towards making the horse more comfortable.

Too old? Not sure if age disqualifies a horse from pasture duty. As to "too much damage".... there's a lot of damage, much of it irreversible. This horse has some insurmountable challenges but if "pasture sound" is the goal, much of what has been already discussed would contribute towards that goal. In the end, it comes down to a measure of emotional investment. Presume about $1,600 to $2,000 per year in farriery maintenance plus up-front vet costs for diagnostics and any elective surgery.

Cheers,
Mark
     
    09-19-2011, 12:55 AM
  #19
Weanling
I agree w/ Mark. Age not so much of a factor. Another concern might be the changes present in the coffin joint. May cause problems after tenotomy/desmotomy.
     

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