No grain? - Page 3

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No grain?

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    10-30-2009, 08:26 AM
Hmmm... well maybe if you cut out the other supplements (and possibly Safe Choice) you could more easily afford the extra hay? Has he been at this place very long? It's too bad he doesn't get along with anyone else, he'd probably be happier out with the rest of them.

Good luck on the job!
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    10-30-2009, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
More hay, less grain, not no grain at all.

If you have an ulcer-prone horse, every good vet I've ever known recommends a complete feed, fed in small amounts 3 to 4 times a day, with as much hay as the horse will eat.
It appears that you are equating any sort of feed with "grain". Complete feeds are forage based which is very different from all of the grain based feeds on the market like sweet feeds or pelleted feeds that use grains as the main ingredient. (Such as Strategy)

Yes, many vets will recommend complete feeds fed along with free-choice hay. This greatly reduces the carb content of the diet and for several years it was the best option because feed companies were not producing ration balancers which have very very low carb content. But complete feeds fed with hay may not provide adequate in the way of nutrients in the diet depending on the type and quality of hay fed because complete feeds are not nutrient dense. In order to make up for deficiencies in hay, complete feeds would need to be fed at extremely high quantities because they are balanced. Mix a balanced feed with a deficient feed and the balance of the whole diet is changed---the overall balance becomes deficient in certain areas. So to minimize the deficiencies you have to feed much more of the balanced feed and less of the deficient feedstuff. But with ration balancers you are using a nutrient dense feedstuff that allows you to compensate for the deficiencies of the forage by feeding only a small amount of the ration balancer.

No, I am not a veterinarian. However I do get my information from the same sources----the AAEP continuing education symposiums, equine medical journals, university veterinary teaching hospitals.
    10-30-2009, 10:57 AM
Think of it this way - a grain (whole oats, corn base, etc) do not break down in water. Requires stomach acid.

A pelleted feed will break down with simply water - less stomach acid production - thus easier on the ulcer.
    10-30-2009, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by mls    
Think of it this way - a grain (whole oats, corn base, etc) do not break down in water. Requires stomach acid.

A pelleted feed will break down with simply water - less stomach acid production - thus easier on the ulcer.
That makes sense.

I think where the big confusion here comes in is that most people consider a pelleted feed to be covered in that all encompassing term of grain.

I was talking about pelleted feeds, not oats and corn.
    10-30-2009, 02:18 PM
He's actually quite content being by himself, I think. Even at his old house where he shared a large pasture with three other horses, he only made friends with the other TB she had a few days before we moved him, and he'd been turned out with them for a whole also helps me form a stronger bond with him. He's already been at our barn for six months.

Since the board I pay (425 a month) pays for feed and up to 5 flakes a day, I can just switch him to any of the other feeds they have available, they have a few. I'll have to look at them. But as I said, if I do drop the supplements, I'll still be keeping the joint supplements because he pops and cracks something awful otherwise, and the probiotics because they were vet recommended.

The feed he's currently on, Safechoice, is a pelleted feed.
    10-30-2009, 09:16 PM
Alright, so here's the list of the feeds that we have:

Senior Feed
Safe Choice
And something by Manna Pro. Seriously it just says "manna pro horse feed" on the bag and nothing else.

I've been looking at horse feed info, and I've also come up with some alternative feeds to try. Let me know what you think!

Nutrena Horse Kwik. This is a complete feed
Seminole Liesure 12 Pellets
Seminole Equalizer....I'd have to mix it with beet pulp
Manna Pro Round Up. I'd probably also mix this with beet pulp.
Purina Mills Strategy
And finally
Purina Mills Nature's Essentials Supplement....I'm fairly sure I'd have to mix this with beet pulp.

I have no idea whats available and whats not in my area, so this is just an opinion kind of thing
    10-31-2009, 02:17 PM
Purina's Natures Essentials supplements are the ration balancers that I have been talking about. You do not mix them with beet pulp. Just feed them according to the label. If you are feeding grass hay you use Enrich 32 and if you are feeding alfalfa you feed Enrich 12.

You need to read the label instructions and ingredients on any food you look at and be sure to feed according to the label. The label tells you how to feed to provide adequate and balanced nutrition. Adding other things to these feeds is going to change the overall balance of the diet which you don't want to do.
    10-31-2009, 02:30 PM
At my barn we feed T&A, so which would I use then?

Again, I'm going purely off of internet resources, I have no idea whats available in my area and I'm just trying to get together some opinions so I can make a solid list of what I want/don't want. Once I actually go out to places and look, it will be a different story.
    11-01-2009, 10:37 AM
Green Broke
If the hay has 50% or more Alfalfa, you feed the 12%. If your hay has less than 50% Alfalfa, you feed the 32%.

If he loses weight, you can add beet pulp for added calories, but if he's getting enough hay, you shouldn't need to.
    11-01-2009, 06:58 PM
Alright, so I talked to my BO today and we've decided we're going to try switching him to their senior feed, which is designed to promote weight gain and things like that since he does need a little bit of weight, and in addition we're also going to add another flake at lunch time, so he'll be essentially getting six flakes of hay. I have a feeling we're still going to end up switching to Strategy though, but the good news is the only thing he'll be getting supplements wise are his joint supplements.

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