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Oats? Yay, or "Neigh"?

5K views 43 replies 11 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
Want to switch my horsie to oats instead of a high quality concentrated diet.

Will Oats, ACV, BOSS, tad of high quality sweet feed , 24/7 pasture, and laces of alfalfa be enough to support a horse that works;

1 hour each day, five days a week doing flatwork, 3ft jumping, 1/8 mile at high speed galloping, trail rides and lunging?

She is a crazy hard keeper. fed 3 times a day. Just want whats best for my pasture pumpkin!

success stories, thoughts anyone?
Thanks
 
#2 ·
If you want what's best for your pasture pumpkin, I would never guess it by what you are wanting to change the diet to.

Oats are high starch, BOSS is high Omega-6 which is documented to exacerbate any sort of internal or external inflammation, and sweet feed ---- well there's been enough talk on this forum as to why feeding sweet feed should not be a choice.

You don't mention what the "high quality concentrated diet" is. If it is a concentrated vit/min supplement, add some rice bran for fat calories.

Others things to consider are ulcers and teeth, as to why the horse can't gain weight.

I would trust there is a de-worming protocol being adhered to, therefore that shouldn't be an issue.

At any rate, the entire sum of things being considered to switch the horse to, are about as bad collectively as it gets.
 
#3 ·
Well then.

That was blunt. but I really do appreciate your time and thoughts!

Let me update you on what's happening around here.

Teeth and Vet checks twice a year, Wormed every Mo. with different wormers, Never had an ulcer in her life.
Everyone say's she has the best topline, skin, hooves, and overall appearance they have ever seen! It's not like I don't care what i'm feeding my horse, and don't give any thought to it. I spend 5 hours a day grooming, preparing meals, loving, caring for, attending too, and excercising my horse. and, she has never been under a 5 on a "condition score".

I have never fed something cheap like sweet feed to a horse. Ever. Always top of the line $20 feed.

If professional Race-Horse owners, vets & nutritional experts, (and much more highly respected Equine owners) are saying this is a good, no a GREAT idea..... why the dislike?

I see your reasoning, and yes, oats are high in starch...and yes, BOSS is high in Omega 6, but probably not even higher than ceareal grains or extruded products that everyone else is feeding their horses.

Are you confident in what you feed your horses? If so, what do you feed them?
I would love to know your protocol on this sensitive subject.
 
#4 ·
I'm not Walk, but I feed a very standard-for-current-knowledge diet of free choice grass hay and stabilized balanced rice bran. With a few carrots, and a handful of a proprietary blend of pelleted grass hay, corn, and molasses, for flavor. I don't have a hard keeper however (she's a Morgan).

This is a basic article on feeding hard keepers.
 
#6 ·
I have not fed any sort of grains to my horses since 2007.

I have fed soy-free since 2012, when one of my horses foundered and his insulin was so high even the lab at Cornell asked the vet if the horse was still alive. Which he still is and doing well.

I buy a condensed vit/min supplement that is soy-free, no added iron and is guaranteed a maximum NSC of 4.25%

As far as vet's that give a nod to BOSS and sweet feed --- well with all due respect, they would not be my vet's for any longer than it took to replace them.

As far as BOSS perhaps not being any worse than the grains "everyone else feeds their horse": to be blunt again, as my mom used to say "just because everyone else is jumping off the Mosquito Creek bridge doesn't mean you need to" :)
 
#7 ·
I love what you have to say!
and what a good success story! I'm very interested, but I don't think any of that is an option, due to her being such a hard keeper. I've tried all kinds of weight boosters as well. never worked:(

If you don't mind me asking, if you do not feed grain, what do you feed, apart from the condensed vit supplement?
also, off topic, what do you think of barley?

And yes, I get what you mean by sketchy vets. When I first got my horse, her old vet said to feed her "Purina! the best" And she was a equine specialist! This sounds gross, but i have found dead animals and chicks, inside the purina FEED! I was so disgusted and horrified. guess who dropped outta the purina anything train. Had not so great vets in my time.
Your mom sounds very wise, Lol
 
#17 ·
I l
If you don't mind me asking, if you do not feed grain, what do you feed, apart from the condensed vit supplement?
also, off topic, what do you think of barley?
Lol
I put whatever supplements both horses need in two household measuring cups of Standlee Timothy pellets twice daily. Household measuring cups are wet measure, when I put them on the dry scale each horse gets about 2-1/2 daily. For them, it's all they need, they stay plump on air.

They both get locally grown orchard grass hay. I am able to buy a year at a time so I get the hay tested for starch content thru Equi-Analytical in New York.

The easy keeper but healthy horse has the 20 acre pasture.

The IR horse has about four acres of yard and one small pasture.

They both have limited turnout. Generally 7-9 hours daily, depending time of year.

Barley:. We didn't raise barley, when I was growing up on the farm so I've never fed it. I am pretty sure it has a high starch value and being a cereal grain, I would never feed it to my two.

I grew up in the 60's - we raised our own oats, corn, and Timothy hay for the dairy & beef and the horses. I took my first two Keeper horses to ages 27 & 29 living on a handful of cereal grain to keep them coming up to the barn on a 98 acre pasture

I was completely blindsided when the first of my second set of Keepers developed metabolic issues in 2007. Everyone was off grain, so to have one of my current horses diagnosed with insulin resistance in 2012 was an even bigger drop of the jaw.

My eyebrows tend to go up a few notches and my lips purse when I see the words, "oats, BOSS, and sweet feed" all in the same sentence --- lollollol

If I could lobby against anything in the horse feed industry, it would be to ban sweet feed.

FWIW, for all the R&D money Purina spends, I have my own negative stories about their feed, and my brother's new rescue dog stopped being sick and throwing up as soon as he took it off Purina and put it on a feed with no cereals in it.
 
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#8 ·
If she's so great why do you want to change her diet? You still haven't said what she is currently on at the moment.

I would also never feed that, there are better ways to get the same benefits and for a hard keeper in at least moderate work the amount of stuff you're pouring into her would add up, meaning those negative effects will add up too. None of those things on their own are deal breakers (though I would still personally stay away from most of them) but all together it's like you're picking unhealthy options!

Hmmm.. I've always been happy with Purina, not my go to but definitely something I would consider and there are several feeds that I am a fan of and they do have a good reputation. Not all things are so black and white and $ does not equal what's best for the horse.

So think of going to McDonalds every day we all know that's unhealthy! Now go buy the same exact meal every day at a high end restaurant is it healthier? Not necessarily. You may have better quality (and yummy) ingredients but eating a greasy burger with bacon and french fries isn't the best choice for overall health. For a human something like that is fine occasionally but I think we all know that "a burger a day" does not keep the doctor away! no matter how high quality it is. Sure you'll get rid of a lot of the McDonalds issues but you can't change that a burger is a burger.

That's sort of what I'm getting from your plan.... you got the burger..and the fries...and the bacon...and a loaded baked potato to boot! Remember KISS- #1 rule for feeding horses!

It sounds like you have a lot of people saying to do it and you seem a little defensive about it but remember you made this post for a reason!

I've seen a LOT of negative things caused by not following the KISS rule... in all aspects of horse care. Less is more.... I even just typed that on another thread :)
 
#9 ·
I personally am not convinced oats are the kiss of death, but assuming the consensus is that they are.......what about adding more alfalfa? It's high in protein and more calorie dense than grass hay. Should be good for a working horse/hard keeper.

I'm feeding about 50/50 alfalfa/grass hay right now. (Because I'm in Arizona, it's hard to get nice grass hay). So the alfalfa is for calories/protein and the grass hay is something to keep them from getting hungry between meals.

I just got a few nice bales of bermuda grass today. I was pretty tickled! Usually the bermuda is dusty and cruddy looking. That's sort of the norm. If you finally find nice grass hay you have to grab it. But I digress......
 
#10 ·
I personally am not convinced oats are the kiss of death, but assuming the consensus is that they are.......what about adding more alfalfa? It's high in protein and more calorie dense than grass hay. Should be good for a working horse/hard keeper.

Yes! This may sound crazy, but I have never fed her alfalfa, just orchard grass/regular hay, alongside her daily regime.
I am going to try that. Hopefully it works!:iagree:
 
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#12 ·
All the directions on the worming packet say every mo. (4-5 weeks) and she doesn't have a single worm (tested and everything!)
She obsesses over hay already, I won't be surprised if she would die to taste some alfalfa, :)

I think people are misunderstanding what I made this thread for. I wanted their thought on the diet, not if my horse is too skinny. I did say she is a very hard keeper, not that she was skinny. I feed her well over the recommendations so no ribs, or anything is showing.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The best diet I have found for my horses that keeps them healthy, shiny, and with great hooves. I feed free choice hay that is netted because otherwise they will eat more than they need. They also get fed alfalfa pellets or cubes once a day. At the moment it is pellets because that is easier on the other person that feeds when I'm not there. Mixed in with the alfalfa is California Trace (because we are selenium deficient where we are at) and it has a good amount of copper and zinc along with several other minerals, vitamins and amino acids. I also put 1/2 of a cup of flax (high in omega 3's and counters the high calcium of the alfalfa) in the mix and the growing filly gets extra amino acids . The filly also gets extra alfalfa hay (about 1 to 2 ratio of grass and alfalfa). They also have free choice salt available.
I stay away from grains except for a handful of whole oats for a treat here and there (and I mean a small handful). I also have had complications with feeding hard feed that was soy based or had soy in it so I stay away from that as well.

At one time, I had a hard keeper and beet pulp added to the same diet above helped her keep the weight on.

When I was a kid, it seemed that feeding horses was so much simpler. They got mostly grass hay, a little alfalfa, and a salt mineral mix. That was it. They stayed healthy and strong. I don't remember having problems with them ever and we rode just about every day with no shoes on the horses. Every once in a while I would make oatmeal cookies for them for a treat.

I feel that the diet that you are thinking of is high in sugars (sweet feed and oats) and high in inflammatory oils (BOSS) I think that there are better choices out there.
 
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#16 ·
The best diet I have found for my horses that keeps them healthy, shiny, and with great hooves. I feed free choice hay that is netted because otherwise they will eat more than they need. They also get fed alfalfa pellets or cubes once a day. At the moment it is pellets because that is easier on the other person that feeds when I'm not there. Mixed in with the alfalfa is California Trace (because we are selenium deficient where we are at) and it has a good amount of copper and zinc along with several other minerals, vitamins and amino acids. I also put 1/2 of a cup of flax (high in omega 3's and counters the high calcium of the alfalfa) in the mix and the growing filly gets extra amino acids . The filly also gets extra alfalfa hay (about 1 to 2 ratio of grass and alfalfa).

At one time, I had a hard keeper and beet pulp added to the same diet above helped her keep the weight on. I stay away from grains except for a handful of whole oats for a treat here and there (and I mean a small handful). I also have had complications with feeding hard feed that was soy based or had soy in it so I stay away from that as well.

When I was a kid, it seemed that feeding horses was so much simpler. They got mostly grass hay, a little alfalfa, and a salt mineral mix. That was it. They stayed healthy and strong. I don't remember having problems with them ever and we rode just about every day with no shoes on the horses. Every once in a while I would make oatmeal cookies for them for a treat.

I feel that the diet that you are thinking of is high in sugars (sweet feed and oats) and high in inflammatory oils (BOSS) I think that there are better choices out there.
I liked this post!
but like I said before, you could give my horse all they hay in the world, and she would look abused and starved!
grain is the only thing that keeps her weight up, and with her pretty sufficient work-load, i have too feed her pellets.
but i HATE too! i was thinking oats would be a healthier option:( but maybe not.

My mom was Heavy in the horse racing industry, and she only fed the proffesional race horses, alfalfa hay, regular hay, sweet feed(a little) and oats.

And about the barefoot thing, my baby is getting her hinds off in a few days, and I'm so excited to see how much better she will feel. and if it works out, i will go totally barefoot!:gallop:
 
#15 ·
Pro-Force Fuel, (PFF)

breakfast; 3 quarts of PFF, BOSS ACV, hay, and 24/7 pasture, very lush.
Lunch; 2 quarts PFF, hay, some oil.
Dinner; 3 quarts PFF, BOSS, ACV, oil, salt.

I do not have a problem with this feed at all. Keeps her weight on, sort of shiny, and a great atittude. The only reason I want to change is I want my horse to go more natural, instead of cereal grains and extruded products. also, her feed is quite expensive, and quality rolled oats are only $12.00 per 50 bag...compared to $20 dollar for PFF. I will always choose the more expensive option, but if their is a more cheaper, and healthier option, I would love to head that way!
 
#23 ·
You want to stay away from cereal grains so swap to straight oats?

Proforce is fine but I think you could maybe find something better. You're only just saying why you actually wanted to swap. (and I only asked about the worming as you said monthly which is outdated and not good, I understand she's in good condition now which is why I was confused as to the change) I understand wanting to swap to natural but natural isn't always better... A good quality feed is just that, which is why the quality feeds cost more, they are already premixed of those natural ingredients.

If you really "want to try natural" I would go with alfalfa and beet pulp and some good supplements (maybe a ration balancer) to keep everything in order (and continue pasture and maybe regular hay too). If she's a "crazy hard keeper" she may need more than that but worth a shot, sometimes horses suddenly gain weight with less when you find the right balance. Has she been checked for ulcers?

I don't understand what you are feeding now either.. I would try a little less Proforce and hay stretcher if you decide to keep things the same but don't think that's too crazy. I don't understand the BOSS at all and also bringing up the Omega 6 thing the Proforce is ALREADY way out of whack with that... Why do you feed the ACV and what and why is the oil? Without too much tweaking as you're happy with that I would keep the ProForce or a similar feed and possibly add hay stretcher ditch the BOSS or swap to something better if you're looking for Omegas keep the ACV (depending on why lol) then just salt and of course hay/pasture.

My procedure for feeding is hay/grass, appropriate quality grain/ration balancer, then add more forage options (beet pulp/hay stretcher/alfalfa pellets) if the horse needs more then a minimum to moderate amount of the feed depending then I will add supplements but they're kept to a minimum as all the nutritional basics should covered at that point, the supplements are just that (I use this and am very happy with it- https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smartomega-3-8294).

And as far as "how things were done" doesn't make them right. Secretariat was put down at 19 for laminitis. Feeding the hard to keep horse has changed DRAMATICALLY in modern times.
 
#18 ·
Haha, I totally get that you were surprised about the whole oat, boss, and -dun dun dun- sweet feed thing!
I bet dealing with IR can be hard and tricky. I have surprisingly never heard of sweet feed being bad, and have never feed it, so kudos to me being clueless, lol.
 
#19 ·
I was going to be skeptical and say your horse is not a hard keeper if she's never been below a 5 on the body condition score. I'm still wondering because I've not seen a "hard keeper" that never dropped weight at times down to a BCS of 4. In my mind, the definition of a hard keeper is one you can't keep weight on despite feeding "the recommended amounts" or a lot more than most horses would eat.

That's beside the point. Anyway, if you're keeping weight on with 8 lbs or so (most grains weigh about 1 lb per quart from my experimentation) of the Pro Force Fuel that's not terrible, but a little risky. It would be riskier, however, to switch to oats.

I'd suggest monitoring how much oil you're feeding since Pro Force Fuel has rice bran and is high in fat, so I'd say you're over feeding fat sources. You've got BOSS (you don't say how much) which is a fat source, rice bran in the Pro Force Fuel, and you're also adding oil. Horses are best at digesting fibrous roughage rather than fats, so it's better to just add a little fat as in a total of 2 cups daily max (from all sources), and then if you need more healthy calories you could add beet pulp or alfalfa pellets.

Corn, Oats and Barley and sweet feed are ALL grains. Grains are high in NSC which is bad for some horses, but they also require the gut to become acidic in order to digest them which is bad for ALL horses. The gut can only be more acidic or less acidic. If you feed grains, the gut will be more acidic. This helps them digest the grain, but it means they digest hay less efficiently and get less calories out of their hay. Hay requires a less acidic gut for digestion. So basically by feeding lots of grain you are saying, "I choose to have my horse digest the small amount of his total diet well, and the large amount of his total diet (hay and pasture) poorly." Which creates a hard keeper.

If you can add concentrated calories with non grain products such as hay pellets, beet pulp, coppra, etc, the horse will get much more benefit from hay and pasture calories.

Why it is risky to switch to oats: Right now your feed has a small amount of corn and other grain products, so your horse only needs a slightly acidic gut to digest it. If you start feeding 8 lbs of oats, the horse's gut will become much more acidic. This can lead to ulcerations in the lining of the gut, and then the toxins inside the gut will leak into the bloodstream. The toxins go to the hooves and cause inflammation. This means instant laminitis, possibly colic, and the horse is at risk for foundering and never being usable again.
 
#20 ·
Nice knowledge!
and i DID mention that i go to extreme measures to keep her above a 5. you should know that between the feed, BOSS, oil, ACV, lots of pasture and hay, and mineral supplements, that is a lottttt of calories. I feed her alot, so that she never shows a rib.

I'm confused. why are their so many proven success stories? if this is so bad, then why are vets and professionals says yes?!?
 
#22 ·
#25 ·
everyone is just NOT getting it! can you please stop trying to prove me wrong?? I know what I'm talking about, and I appreciate the effort and time you are taking to talk to me...but I have copiously repeted myself in saying that i have tried EVERYTHING! except the oats, and was wanted advice on someoen who actually USES oats. not people who are trying to dis me on everything else. and also, if people were reading the things that other people have asked, and i have replied, you would know that YES! she HAS been checked out by the vet! I'm trying to tell YOU that everything else is fine...I don't want advice on wormer, etc.

not trying to be mean...people arent understanding.
 
#34 ·
I don't think that it's people not getting it. You asked for success stories on feeding what you are planning. I guess no one has any success stories on using sweet feed, oats, and BOSS. You also asked for peoples thoughts on this and this is what the thoughts are. No one is trying to be mean. It's just experience talking.

LoriF out
 
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#26 ·
My horses have never had a shoe on their feet and I like that. But, it's a little more than just pulling their shoes off. Their diet has to be right and it all depends on how they are being used as well. My horses live on predominately sand. If I were to ever trailer them for say riding in the mountains and rocky trails, I would probably put boots on their feet unless I wanted to risk bringing back lame horses. If my horses live on those same rocks I wouldn't worry about it so much.[/QUOTE]

once again, my horse is in the best condition she has ever been in her 10 years. The only reason I want to switch is to try something more natural, but something that will still keep the weight her.

she has been cleared by farrier and vet to go barefoot. I'm not some loco trying to save money and throw the shoes, and ride of into the sunset....
I'm doing this in my horses best interest, and i am prepared for her to take 2 to 3 months to trasition. I know this is a touchy transition for her.
 
#29 ·
My horses have never had a shoe on their feet and I like that. But, it's a little more than just pulling their shoes off. Their diet has to be right and it all depends on how they are being used as well. My horses live on predominately sand. If I were to ever trailer them for say riding in the mountains and rocky trails, I would probably put boots on their feet unless I wanted to risk bringing back lame horses. If my horses live on those same rocks I wouldn't worry about it so much.
once again, my horse is in the best condition she has ever been in her 10 years. The only reason I want to switch is to try something more natural, but something that will still keep the weight her.

she has been cleared by farrier and vet to go barefoot. I'm not some loco trying to save money and throw the shoes, and ride of into the sunset....
I'm doing this in my horses best interest, and i am prepared for her to take 2 to 3 months to trasition. I know this is a touchy transition for her.
I was not saying that you are loco or that your horse is not well cared for. I was not accusing you of anything. I'm sorry that you took it that way but it certainly was not intended that way at all. I'm actually glad to hear that the shoes are coming off. I think that they are better off for it when done correctly.

I also think that you will have better success with no shoes if you stay away from the grains and inflammatory fats.
 
#27 ·
Actually you got some kind advice from someone who used to feed 8 pounds of oats per day. The result was her horse foundered and she got a stern lecture from her vet. After a few x-rays and out standing care, the horse is well on the way to full recovery. But at one point it was so bad that the possibility of euthanasia was being a thought.

When the hind gut becomes acidic as in acidosis, terrible things happen all over the horse's body including founder.

Check out acidosis in horses in Google. Here's one to get you started. Serious stuff for certain.

Reducing Hindgut Acidosis | TheHorse.com
 
#36 ·
OP, this person Hondo mentioned did have to put her horse on probios and similar supplements in conjunction with NON-grain weight gain feeds (beet pulp, etc.) to get her horse's gut back to where she would hold weight on hay and pasture. As Hondo said, the horse used to have to eat 8-10 pounds of oats a day just to maintain an OK weight. Now, I believe the horse is mostly eating forage (she may still be getting beet pulp and/or rice bran) and know for a fact she is eating no grain at all.

FWIW, I did buy a bag of whole oats just to try it. Two mares get a VERY small handful in with their supplements. I use the oats as a kind of carrier with coconut oil, so the powdered supplements stick to the oats. They get this on top of two quarts of soaked alfalfa cubes.
The girls do look amazing, better than I have ever seen them in 8 years of owning one and 5 years of knowing the other. However, I don't think that has jack squat to do with the oats.
They are currently fed free choice bermuda in a nibblenet, the above mentioned alfalfa cubes and oats, Source seaweed supplement, 800IU of Vitamin E, and free choice mineral/salt blocks. One mare also gets animed Immuaid, for her summer allergies, and a glucosamine supplement.

I do not think I will be purchasing another bag of whole oats after this, I will find a different carrier for the powdered supplements.

I left a full care barn this past January and went to self-care. I asked the barn owner for an exact measurement of how much sweet feed she was feeding with the supplements ("to make them more palatable") so that I could wean them off it. I was told when I moved to that barn that it was only a small handful. Found out upon leaving that it was an entire cup. I was livid! Moot point though, as I was already leaving.
 
#28 ·
I forget to say that I also use Yea-Sacc in their supplement mix. The reason being is that it helps the horse absorb more nutrients from the grass, hay and feed that they are getting and over all digestion in the hind gut.
 
#30 ·
Yes, I am excited to try this, and Hopefully a solution will come up, that will work!
Thank you for your knowledge:)
 
#31 ·
Oats have been a mainstay of energy supplementation in horses for centuries. That being said, oats and burmuda hay do not make a complete diet like so many people around here (meaning where I live, not this forum) think they do.

I have seen yearlings fed free choice oats and none of them got sick or foundered. I was extremely surprised by the fact that it didn't kill them though.

I have no objection to using some oats in the diet except that they are just plain dusty. It will cause respiratory issues in many horses.

The whole purpose of molasses poured over oats (AKA sweet feed) is to cut the dust.

If you want to formulate a complete diet, you need to get nutritional charts and make sure that all nutritional needs are being met.
 
#32 ·
thank you for taking the time to write that!
do you still think they would be dusty if they were steamed and rolled?
I had no intention of just feeding oats and hay, a vit/mineral supplement would be added, along with any other needed supplements
 
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#33 ·
I have bought rolled oats and they were very dusty. They also are not cheap. I have never seen steamed oats to buy.

Depending on the protein content in the hay (based on a real analysis), you might have to add in a protein supplement as well. We used to use Carnation's Calf Manna years ago.
 
#35 ·
well the plan was to soak them. and in my area, oats and hay are super cheap. very high quality hay is $5.00 and high quality rolled and steamed oats here are 13 bucks. is that cheap, or am i delusional? I have only one horse anyways, so that is not a bad price for me.
 
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