Is one time chiropractor visit worth it? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 12:26 PM
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^ And religion would be moot.
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post #22 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
on a side note, I just read that not even the American Chiropractic Association recognizes this. The research, and lack there of is out there, testimonials are not research though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18089466

A clinical study.

Another study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...E3E1DF0.d02t04

An article: http://www.chiroaccess.com/Articles/...spx?id=0000132 (With examples of more studies)

Quote:
During the last decade the quantity and quality of the research supporting the value of chiropractic care for animals has improved. This is an area that needs much more research but there are a few studies that provide at least low level of evidence supporting chiropractic effectiveness in the management of painful conditions that affect animals (e.g. horses with low back pain). There are also studies supporting the use of chiropractic care to improve animal biomechanics. Owners involved in horse racing are particularly interested in optimizing animal performance. Several quality programs are now available to educate chiropractic and veterinary professionals so that they can work together to improve animal care.
More information (Including AMVA guidelines for Veterinary Chiropractic) http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=720

An article from the International Veterinary Information Service: http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/1997/Haussler.pdf

Quote:
Anecdotal evidence and clinical experience suggest that chiropractic is an effective adjunctive
modality for the diagnosis and conservative treatment of select musculoskeletal-related disorders in
horses. Because of its potential misuse, chiropractic evaluation and treatment should be provided
only by specially trained individuals
Surely a couple of these are up to snuff?

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post #23 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 01:16 PM
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the second study cited was so laughable I didnt bother clicking on the rest. Key author was a high school student.,
And the scientific tests? The took 38 healthy horses with no symptoms, used pseudo science guidelines, and decided that the horses with nothing wrong with them still had nothing wrong with them.
SO yep that study showed that basically it does nothing, doesnt seem to be any harm in it which is why no one has really gotten involved in stopping it.
Sorta like many of the vitamins and supplements. As long as it isnt hurting anything not gonna attract any gov regulators or public condemnation.
Piling on me isnt gonna change anything.
Horse massage spinal manipulations are not a recognized treatment for anything. All the indignation in the world isnt gonna change that.
To each their own, Ive told the OP what I think. Not much else to be gained with further discussion.
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post #24 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Horse massage spinal manipulations are not a recognized treatment for anything.
Certain people clearly have recognitional issues. (Although, I suppose actually reading would be beneficial to this issue.) "Anything" is also a very broad word.

Quote:
All the indignation in the world isnt going to change that.
I see no examples of indignation on this thread. I do, however, see exasperation.

Quote:
To each their own, I've told the OP what I think. Not much else to be gained with further discussion.
I certainly agree with this.

I guess I'm just confused by your personal degree of condemnation based purely on a lack of evidence, especially when advising others.
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
you cant ha The Placebo effect is a powerful thing.

Joe, your mind is so tightly closed it is amazing. While I believe there is a strong placebo effect in many human treatments, for a placebo effect to be in effect, you need a species that can be "convinced" through persuasion that something is good for you. I just don't see that possible when dealing with horses. They can't be FOOLED into thinking some treatment is making them feel better. It either does or it does not.

In my opinion, for you to think that horses can be affected by any form of "placebo effect" shows a remarkable lack of knowledge about what makes a horse tick.

I have not used a chiro, personally, on either myself or horses. However, I was at a huge major event one time, when a famous European Chiro visited the show grounds. When word of his presence got around, two of the top competitors pulled their horses from the competition to get them treated. THAT showed me how much they valued the work.

My sister is a vet acupuncturist. People may say there is a "placebo effect" there, but she has seen DRAMATIC changes in the animals she has treated.

Try opening your mind....you just may learn something.
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post #26 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 02:43 PM
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I have use a combination of Chiro/bioscan and accupunture for about 13-14 years now. I have found that the combination works best with the horses. Most are one time things but when I am working the horses I have the person I use out fairly regularly to keep up with it. I also have Bioscan pads that really really help to keep her away. She is great but the less I have to use her the more money I keep for other things.

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post #27 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
Horse massage spinal manipulations are not a recognized treatment for anything.
While I have not had any chiro work done on any of my horses in years, I have had massage done today and the mare definitely has muscle injuries most likely from a slip and fall in the pasture. I had the person walk my mare to and away to see how she moved before the massage. After the massage we did the same, she walked her to and away. There was a big difference in the way she walked. Her hind left leg was being swung out about 3 inches from where she should be putting it.After the treatment she was walking within about 1/2 inch of where she should be. Yes, she will have to come back out more to work on the mare BUT the person is also teaching me what I can do to her in order to keep her stiff sore muscles relaxed so I won't have to make her come back out over and over and continue to pay her. Oh, and the whole $25 I paid for it was extremely detrimental to my wallet...
So while you claim they are not a recognized treatment for "anything", I have to say yes they are beneficial to the horse. Without personal experience I would be able to find things on the internet all day against these types of procedures being done and believe everything they say. They are not a cure all, but can be a beneficial part in a treatment program for injuries, whether it be the equine masseuse or the equine chiropractor.

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post #28 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
on a side note, I just read that not even the American Chiropractic Association recognizes this. The research, and lack there of is out there, testimonials are not research though.
Funny. My chiro also does horses. If there was no benifite from it he would not wast his time doing it. His human practise keeps him busie enough. He does it b/c it works. I will say that you need to add more to it. Just like with humans there is muscle memory and b/c of this it is not hard for the horse to come out of line again.

I have been breeding raising and showing reining horses for 15 or so years now. I have been using Chiro/Bioscan and accupunture for 13 of those years. I will say that it does help a great deal. Keeping a horse in line and working correctly saves so much in the long run. In all those years I have seen the differance in the horses performance. This can be noted in their scores at shows. Their attitude in their work and the fact that in all those years I have only had to have one horses hocks injected one time. Wonder why?? When that is not the industry norm.

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post #29 of 31 Old 03-04-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
as is there isnt any scientific evidence to support this.
Could you, please, explain what you mean by "scientific evidence" for this particular situation?

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post #30 of 31 Old 03-05-2012, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
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Wow I had a lot to catch up on :P

I believe in chiro work, I just asked because if I do it this one time, this dr will not be able to come out for a while, so I wanted to make sure it would be worth it. I have seen a few times, and mostly heard stories, of how much chiro worked has helped their horses. My best friend whos horse had a lot of soreness problems, including her back, had 2 chiros come out to the barn. They soon realized the 1st one was a quack and he actually hurt the horse. Then this dr that Im speaking about came out and helped the horse so much, to where she was able to get back on her again. I think I am going to do it and also post updates on the difference. Everyone at my barn seems to be for it and says how it's helped their horse so I think it will be worth it. The barn manager herself noticed a HUGE difference in a trail horse they have, when bringing the saddle near his back he would get really ornery. Now he doesn't have that problem at all after chiropractic work. I have spoken to 20-30 people on chiropractors, and so far only 1 has said they don't believe in it. At least I have gotten a lot of positive reviews so I feel confident about doing it, thanks everyone!
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