Possible for mare to be pregnant when the vet says no? - Page 2
 
 

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Possible for mare to be pregnant when the vet says no?

This is a discussion on Possible for mare to be pregnant when the vet says no? within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Can vets miss horse pregnancy
  • Vet missed mares pregnancy at 12 days

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    02-14-2013, 08:33 AM
  #11
Super Moderator
X -- Vets most often miss mares that are 3 - 8 months Pg. May not be a bad overall Vet but one that needs to learn to recognize a 'missing uterus' by palpation. Those are some of the Vets that I have taught how to palpate a mare and not rely on US.

Painted -- When your Vet found Twins, did the Vet 'pinch' one of the Embryos? If so, did the Vet have you put the mare of Regumate for 30 days or give the mare a Progesterone shot? If not, the chances are very high of losing the remaining one. The embryonic fluid from the pinched twin contains a hormone that acts like Prosaglandin and causes the mare to come back in heat, which, of course, causes the loss of the other embryo. That fluid is absorbed by the mare and will frequently cause the mare to shed the other embryo when she comes into heat just like she had been given a shot of Lutalyse. The Progesterone given at the time of the 'twin check' usually lets the mare stay Pg and not come back into heat.
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    02-14-2013, 02:04 PM
  #12
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
X -- Vets most often miss mares that are 3 - 8 months Pg. May not be a bad overall Vet but one that needs to learn to recognize a 'missing uterus' by palpation. Those are some of the Vets that I have taught how to palpate a mare and not rely on US.

Painted -- When your Vet found Twins, did the Vet 'pinch' one of the Embryos? If so, did the Vet have you put the mare of Regumate for 30 days or give the mare a Progesterone shot? If not, the chances are very high of losing the remaining one. The embryonic fluid from the pinched twin contains a hormone that acts like Prosaglandin and causes the mare to come back in heat, which, of course, causes the loss of the other embryo. That fluid is absorbed by the mare and will frequently cause the mare to shed the other embryo when she comes into heat just like she had been given a shot of Lutalyse. The Progesterone given at the time of the 'twin check' usually lets the mare stay Pg and not come back into heat.
Yes The vet pinched off the one successfully .I can't remember what or if he gave her something,it was a while ago but Know wasn't on regumate. Mare had healthy colt the following spring
     
    02-15-2013, 02:37 AM
  #13
Weanling
We had a mare that we tried to sell. A local trainer offered to take give her a tune-up, then take her straight to the sale barn.
We ended up doing a no-sale because the price was waaayyy too low, and it was most definitely a kill buyer bidding. (She was actually a very good mare, we just never rode her.)

Many a month later my Mom asks me, "Do you think Annie is pregnant?"
I think I laughed.
My Mom ended up asking that question to everyone, even a vet passing by. (He didn't do an actual check, just looked at her across the pasture.)
He said, "Nah."

Fast forward a couple more months: The farrier comes out to trim a different horse. My mother asks him the same question. His response? "Sure looks like it!"

dusty.jpg

Yup! Sure looks like it! Lol!
Turns out the trainer had an Appaloosa stud next to this mare. A one-night romance, apparently!
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    02-15-2013, 02:44 AM
  #14
Trained
Yes! I had my mare U/S numerous times and palpated and each time the vet said no, and infact said she would never have another foal ever again, and she had a very nice surprise for us a few weeks ago, it was very much a welcome surprise.
     
    02-15-2013, 03:08 AM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
Let me try to explain what happens when you try to check a mare past 90 days pregnant, especially if you do it by US.

I have palpated literally thousands of mares in the last 45 years. I have never had an US. I quit breeding for the public about the time I needed to get a US unit. Toward the end of my standing stallions, USing mares was getting very popular. But, I cannot tell you how many mares people had a Vet check (usually by US) before sending them to me to breed that were already bred -- usually that winter before to some yearling or the neighbor's stud or their own colts that had not been weaned yet.

After about 70 or 80 days, a mare's uterus has a big enough embryo in it that it falls over in front of the pelvic rim. This varies in mares with maidens taking longer and older mares with many pregnancies (especially if they are low backed and big bellied) happening earlier. Before that time, US is very accurate as is palpation because the pregnancy is right there. You can run the probe over it and can get your hand around it getting very close to exact date.

As soon as the uterus falls over in front of the pelvic rim, it is inaccessible to a hand or an is difficult to find with an US probe until the foal is big enough to run into and identify head and legs.

So, they can be pronounced 'open' by an inexperienced technician or Vet. I never missed them because I was very experienced and very good at palpations. After the uterus 'disappears', you have to go by the 'lack of a uterus' that you can cup your hand around and you can feel the 'tight' stretched ligaments that go from the ovaries to the uterus. You find an ovary (which should be 'active' size and usually has multiple small follicles on it in a Pg mare) and you follow the taught ligament down from it to where the uterus should be. Then you go across the center and go up the other ligament to the other ovary. The ovaries are lower than in an open mare because they are being pulled down by the pregnant uterus.

I actually have taught some Vets how to palpate mares in that time range because they had only been taught to US. Even today, unless I was doing Embryo Transfers or something like that and I HAD to chose between knowing how to US and knowing how to palpate good, I would chose being able to palpate mares. A good Technician can tell you a lot about a mare. I would rather palpate ovaries for a follicle than US the ovaries and can 'feel' if a mare should be treated or cultured or medicated before breeding better than most people that US them. I can 'feel' uterine tone and condition far better than an US can.
ooooo I don't know why I feel a bit weird thinking about when you stick the hand in the uterus. Very interesting to read what a great post comment, very detail and explanatory about the stuff you do to see if a mare is pregos.
     
    02-15-2013, 10:51 AM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaMyee    
ooooo I don't know why I feel a bit weird thinking about when you stick the hand in the uterus. Very interesting to read what a great post comment, very detail and explanatory about the stuff you do to see if a mare is pregos.
You know that a palp is not done by sticking the hand into the uterus, but instead is done by sticking the hand in the rectum right??
FGRanch, themacpack and verona1016 like this.
     
    02-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #17
Super Moderator
Yes! They are done rectally with a disposable plastic glove or 'sleeve' on that comes to the technician's shoulder.

You carefully go in, scoop out all the fecal material and about 12 to 18 inches in you can feel the uterus directly under the gut. It runs from right to left with an ovary on each end just behind the kidneys. The ovaries range from the size of a hen's egg to about fist sized. You can find and feel the softness of a follicle on one and determine if she is ready to ovulate. You run your hand over and behind the uterus to feel the uterus and to try to find a pregnancy. You run your fingertips under the uterus to find early pregnancies, feel for tone or an enlarged uterus or other problems. You can tell how far they are along (Pg wise) by the size of the embryo in them until the weight of the pregnancy pulls the entire uterus over in front of the pelvis and into the abdomen. That is when all of the inexperienced Vets miss them. They just do not have the experience to know how to tell an empty uterus from a missing one.
themacpack and OliviaMyee like this.
     
    02-15-2013, 06:13 PM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
You know that a palp is not done by sticking the hand into the uterus, but instead is done by sticking the hand in the rectum right??
HAHAH omg no I don't think I was following maybe that's why I felt so disgusted.
     

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foals, mares, pregnant, vets

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