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Protien comparsion...

This is a discussion on Protien comparsion... within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • "IR horses and protien"

 
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    06-23-2009, 10:41 PM
  #11
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshie    
Well, I've heard he's skinny and needs some meat on his bones. Anyway, HE wants a good home so HE wants to come home with ME.

He says he doesn't want to end up like this at your house:

He wants to end up like this at my house:


Yeah I was told he is a strung out horse and as with all IR horses in bad shape. I do hope you realize that IR horses need a lot of care.

Maybe peggysue can tell us just how you fix up an IR horse with RBs?
     
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    06-24-2009, 10:27 AM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
Yeah I was told he is a strung out horse and as with all IR horses in bad shape. I do hope you realize that IR horses need a lot of care.

Maybe peggysue can tell us just how you fix up an IR horse with RBs?
I don't know if this is in joking or rudeness.
     
    06-24-2009, 01:31 PM
  #13
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshie    
But some horses can be damaged by concentrated protein sources.
How? What horses? Everything I read says that unless the horse has a pre-existing accute kidney problem, concentrated protein feeds are just fine, even for growing horses.

If a horse consumes more protein than they need, it's simply excreted through the urine. So, unless you think smelly pee is "damaging" to a horse, I don't really see the problem.
     
    06-24-2009, 01:36 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
... how you fix up an IR horse with RBs?
RB were DESIGNED for IR horses. They are low in sugar and low in starch, the two things that an IR horse cannot have. So, paired with the right low sugar/starch hay (like Timothy), they make a perfect diet.

Now, if you can't get the right hay, don't have the money to test hay, or have to get hay from multiple sources, then no, an RB with Hay diet is probably not going to work (unless you buy hay cubes that have more static levels of starch/sugar). In that case, a complete feed like Triple Crown's Safe Starch would be the way to go: Triple Crown Nutrition - Safe Starch

About IR & Treatments:
Insulin Resistance in Horses - Extension Fact Sheet
Insulin Resistance in Horses - Management and Warning Signs of Laminitis.

Oats are the very opposite thing an IR horse should have. They are very high in starch. They are fine for a non-IR horse, but bad for one that is insulin resistant.
     
    06-24-2009, 02:22 PM
  #15
Cat
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
How? What horses? Everything I read says that unless the horse has a pre-existing accute kidney problem, concentrated protein feeds are just fine, even for growing horses.

If a horse consumes more protein than they need, it's simply excreted through the urine. So, unless you think smelly pee is "damaging" to a horse, I don't really see the problem.
I know of 2 ponies so far that have switched to RB and went into kidney failure shortly afterwards. It was fed at the level recommended on the bag for them. Was it solely due to the RB? Probably not - can't even prove these two instances were due to RB at all, though it seems highly coincidental when in both instances those were the only changes in their life. Problem is - horses and ponies can hide issues very easily. These horses may have already been having kidney issues before this and no one knew it and may have gone on the rest of their lives just fine. But the added protein in the RB could have pushed them over the edge since the kidneys had to handle the excess.

However, many studies are showing that unless your horses are doing high-level performance, most hays & pastures have adequate protein. Why do we need to add even MORE to the diet then? I just never understood that frame of mind and one of the reasons I never jumped on the RB bandwagon. I do agree - sweet feeds and other feeds with a high NSC are not good for most horses. However, I also don't think extra protein is good either, especially when they are getting adequate amounts from their hay or pasture.

When supplementing is needed - I prefer recommending a little beet pulp (which is only 10% and I usually only give enough for the supplements to mix in unless the horse needs to gain weight or something) and just a regular vitamin/mineral supplement. These are usually given in a 1.5-3 oz scoop. This overall is very little added protein above and beyond the normal forage. Pastured horses who are in good weight only get a mineral block. So coming from this view - RB are a very concentrated dose of protein in comparrison.
     
    06-24-2009, 02:30 PM
  #16
Cat
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
Now, if you can't get the right hay, don't have the money to test hay, or have to get hay from multiple sources, then no, an RB with Hay diet is probably not going to work (unless you buy hay cubes that have more static levels of starch/sugar).
This is a very important point!!! Unfortunately I know some people who really push the RBs on everyone don't seem to understand this information.

I'm sure RBs can be great with the right combo of hay and horses. And I do see where its an improvement for horses over very sugary sweet feeds. But I am sick of those who push it for all horses in all situations. Its actually refreshing, luvs2ride, to talk with someone who can see its not right for all situations.
     
    06-24-2009, 03:12 PM
  #17
Yearling
The ADM Stay Strong only has 10% protein and 12% NSC...Appy. Just looked on my label...can't find anything about potassium. I emailed for the NSC a while back and they responded quickly. Seems like the perfect feed for easy keepers according to both sides of the arguments on this thread.
     
    06-24-2009, 03:15 PM
  #18
Started
What many of you are missing is that the RB is LESS protiens then MOST feeds provide ... that is why you ahve to do the math


A ration balancer is designed to balance the average hay/pasture ... it is NOT a protien supplement .. you guys are like talking to a wall


Average sweet feed is 12% protien you are suppose to feed 6lbs a day which is the average weight of a 3qt scoop or large coffee can

So that is .6lbs of protien!!! Low quality protien that is going to pass though th system...
The reason we see so many POOR toplines is LOW QUALITY protien
     
    06-24-2009, 03:16 PM
  #19
Started
Chicken feathers are high in protien and are used in dog food .. but it is not USABLE protien

That is the difference a ration balancer offers USABLE protien NOT passed thur where as many other feeds have low quality protien that is not digested or used and is passed thur the system
     
    06-24-2009, 03:17 PM
  #20
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979    
How? What horses? Everything I read says that unless the horse has a pre-existing accute kidney problem, concentrated protein feeds are just fine, even for growing horses.

If a horse consumes more protein than they need, it's simply excreted through the urine. So, unless you think smelly pee is "damaging" to a horse, I don't really see the problem.
Pre-existing would mean chronic - not accute.

The very best person to ask about your particular horses nutritional needs is a local nutrition expert. They are impartial to feed brands and look at the need of your horse taking into consideration - body score, health, work load, environment, availability of feeds, and hay content. Some areas of the country can grow outstanding hay and little more is needed. Some people can't afford top quality hay and need to balance with a type of feed or supplement, etc.

Suggestions by internet can only be suggestions.
     

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