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  • Smartdigest ultra muscle

 
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    06-28-2011, 01:46 PM
  #11
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
I would start out at 6lbs a day. I had Nelson on 10lbs a day and he did well with it.

I had him on Tripple Crown Senior though. I dislike Purina very much, their feeds are very low quality. If you only have access to Purina, I would invest in the Ultium instead.

Of course, introduce is slowly.

Also, sometimes horses digestive systems just cannot do its job entirely, or well enough. So by adding a digestive aid may be needed - pending the horse. Sometimes, their systems just cannot absorb the importancies of the feed to nourish the horse properly, or cannot run the process needed properly - so by adding a digestive aid can help the system work at its best.

I love SmartPaks SmartDigest Ultra - that did a wonderful job for Nelson. And, I would also look into there possibly being ulcers.

There's a lot to factor in, when you have a horse that just isn't gaining the weight needed - but definitely start with getting rid of that cruddy sweet feed. There's NOTHING to it, just lots of un needed sugar. Start out with that, introduce the Senior feed, cocosoya and see where you are from there. That + 24/7 acces to hay and pasture, should help.

If not, I would start to look into ulcers, and digestive aids.
AHH thank you again. I was going to go with Purina since thts what TCS carried but I made a few calls and found one of my old feed mills I went to carries Triple Crown Senior feed and its cheaper then the purina! SO it all works out!
     
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    06-28-2011, 01:48 PM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamibunny    
Hmm, Since he was gaining weight nad then stopped I would probably hit him with some good dewormer too maybe Quest. I don't think everyone does, but im a fan of keeping them on a rotaing schedule of wormers.
I second the Ultium feed.. it is super expensive.. but I have seen it work for many hard keepers.
He does get dewormed in rotations.
     
    06-28-2011, 09:18 PM
  #13
Trained
Hi,

Haven't read all replies, just got as far as what you're feeding him now. First & foremost, may be stating the obvious to you, but if you ask a question of 10 horsepeople on whatever subject, you're liable to get at least 15 strong & opposing opinions!!<GG> So do your reasearch so you can come to a more informed decision on what to do for your horse. Feedxl.com is one great resource for *independent of feed co's* info & advice on feeds. Safergrass.org is another good source on diet info. Now for my opinion...

Sweet feed is basically 'junk food' for horses. In addition, it's usually got lots of grain or grain-based ingredients. Starchy feed is not great for most horses, most of the time, as their digestive system doesn't deal with it well & it can cause hind gut probs, including colic, weightloss, acidosis, laminitis. So consider ditching the sweet feed for starters, and consider the above when looking at options. Senior feed can indeed be a good and appropriate choice, but it is often high starch, so IMO worth considering other alternatives.

Due to current &/or previous feeding practice, the horse may have ulcers. I don't know how your horse is/was managed, but many intensively kept horses (such as racers for eg) do suffer from ulcers. I'd definitely consider scoping &/or treating him to rule that out.

Feeding practice; In addition to considering what to feed, you need to also look at how you can feed. Eg. Horses have small stomachs and are designed to eat tiny amounts of poor grade(compared to rich, cattle fattening grass/hay & hard feed) roughage and eat near constantly. The more frequent, small meals you can offer the better, and the more goodness/calories he'll get out of it. This is especially important when considering 'hard feed' that he doesn't have free access to, especially if it's grain based or otherwise starchy. Feeding larger meals only 2-3 times daily ups the likelihood of ulcers, colic, etc, etc.

Also horses are built for free movement and if cooped up in a stable, their digestive system can also suffer. Therefore 24/7 turnout can also help weight gain. Yet another thing to consider is that perhaps it's not calories he's lacking, but well balanced nutrition. Again, feedxl.com is one good source of finding what is appropriate supplements for your horse in his situation.

So, I don't know your regime, but it could be that he doesn't need extra calories, just better ones, &/or different management.
     
    06-28-2011, 09:29 PM
  #14
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Hi,

Haven't read all replies, just got as far as what you're feeding him now. First & foremost, may be stating the obvious to you, but if you ask a question of 10 horsepeople on whatever subject, you're liable to get at least 15 strong & opposing opinions!!<GG> So do your reasearch so you can come to a more informed decision on what to do for your horse. Feedxl.com is one great resource for *independent of feed co's* info & advice on feeds. Safergrass.org is another good source on diet info. Now for my opinion...

Sweet feed is basically 'junk food' for horses. In addition, it's usually got lots of grain or grain-based ingredients. Starchy feed is not great for most horses, most of the time, as their digestive system doesn't deal with it well & it can cause hind gut probs, including colic, weightloss, acidosis, laminitis. So consider ditching the sweet feed for starters, and consider the above when looking at options. Senior feed can indeed be a good and appropriate choice, but it is often high starch, so IMO worth considering other alternatives.

Due to current &/or previous feeding practice, the horse may have ulcers. I don't know how your horse is/was managed, but many intensively kept horses (such as racers for eg) do suffer from ulcers. I'd definitely consider scoping &/or treating him to rule that out.

Feeding practice; In addition to considering what to feed, you need to also look at how you can feed. Eg. Horses have small stomachs and are designed to eat tiny amounts of poor grade(compared to rich, cattle fattening grass/hay & hard feed) roughage and eat near constantly. The more frequent, small meals you can offer the better, and the more goodness/calories he'll get out of it. This is especially important when considering 'hard feed' that he doesn't have free access to, especially if it's grain based or otherwise starchy. Feeding larger meals only 2-3 times daily ups the likelihood of ulcers, colic, etc, etc.

Also horses are built for free movement and if cooped up in a stable, their digestive system can also suffer. Therefore 24/7 turnout can also help weight gain. Yet another thing to consider is that perhaps it's not calories he's lacking, but well balanced nutrition. Again, feedxl.com is one good source of finding what is appropriate supplements for your horse in his situation.

So, I don't know your regime, but it could be that he doesn't need extra calories, just better ones, &/or different management.
Ahh thank you for your input and the websites! The vet is coming out soon to do my horse's teeth again (I know this is not a cause for not gaining a lot of weight b/c when he does have his teeth done he is the same weight. And he eats his feed pan clean with no grain on ground) so I may just get him scope for ulcers then just to rule that out. Just curious Hero is my first horse and how much does getting scope for ulcers usually cost? Also I started to gradually change my horse's feed to Triple Crown Senior feed as I learned that sweet feed was junk and Triple Crown Senior seemed to have the extra boost my horse needs.

Just for you guys to see this is how my horse currently looks like. He is not super bad but those darn ribs still show! I need to get rid of those! And I am building him up.
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    06-28-2011, 11:41 PM
  #15
Trained
Good - go with the Tripple Crown Senior! That's awesome!
     
    06-28-2011, 11:53 PM
  #16
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
Good - go with the Tripple Crown Senior! That's awesome!
Got it earlier tonight. Liked what I saw :) I'm rather excited to see how this works.
     
    06-29-2011, 03:03 AM
  #17
Yearling
Got to ditto the Triple Crown. Great product. Make sure you weight it and feed everything by weight. 1 lb of TC SR gives about 1600 calories I think it is.

Alfalfa is a great way to add calories also. If comes in hay, cubes or pellets. I like the hay or pellets best as it is easier to figure the weight and scoop measurement or flake. 5 lbs of alfalfa fed twice a day (10 lbs a day) can add 8 to 10 thousand calories a day! My 2 string bales of alfalfa weght about 75 or 80lbs and have 14 flakes on them generally So its pretty much weighted out for me and one bale lasts one horse one week as an addative to his free choice grass hay. Also, alfalfa is highly touted to help horses with ulcers. Can't hurt.


Free choice hay or grazig also helps with weight gain and stomach acid. A horse needs to eat all the time, otherwise his stomach fills with acid in between meals. Free choice grass hay in a slow feed hay net can really make a difference. The slow feed net well help him eat slower and more methodically and chew smaller bites better and his meals will last longer.

Also, a daily probiotic is a GREAT idea. If the horse can't utilize his food, it wont matter what you feed him.
     
    06-29-2011, 03:09 AM
  #18
Trained
Hi,

Of course, pics can be deceiving, but your horse looks pretty near perfect weight right now to me! If he is underweight, it's not by much at all. About those 'darn ribs', firstly, he is a TB & they're a lean type of horse anyway. Secondly, seeing ribs doesn't mean the horse is necessarily underweight. Look at the whole horse, not just the ribs, because they're all individual like us, and some hold weight in different places. Thirdly, 'lean' is generally far healthier than overweight and people are generally too used to seeing fat horses & overfeeding. I'd be more concerned by being unable to see a trace of rib thru a summer coat than the opposite & it's not as if they're hanging out or anything.

From that pic, I would - don't stress! - consider getting a bodyworker & also good trimmer to check him out to suss out that lumbar bulge and also the long, heel-less look to his back foot(feet). Is he an OTTB?
     
    06-29-2011, 11:30 AM
  #19
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Hi,

Of course, pics can be deceiving, but your horse looks pretty near perfect weight right now to me! If he is underweight, it's not by much at all. About those 'darn ribs', firstly, he is a TB & they're a lean type of horse anyway. Secondly, seeing ribs doesn't mean the horse is necessarily underweight. Look at the whole horse, not just the ribs, because they're all individual like us, and some hold weight in different places. Thirdly, 'lean' is generally far healthier than overweight and people are generally too used to seeing fat horses & overfeeding. I'd be more concerned by being unable to see a trace of rib thru a summer coat than the opposite & it's not as if they're hanging out or anything.

From that pic, I would - don't stress! - consider getting a bodyworker & also good trimmer to check him out to suss out that lumbar bulge and also the long, heel-less look to his back foot(feet). Is he an OTTB?
Oh yes he is an OTTB. Hero did not take his transition from racehorse to pleasure horse well physically. We pulled his shoes off when I got him off the track. I was expecting up to a 2 week rebound. But no Hero went sore for 6-7 months and lost a lot of weight. Seemed liked his body shut down. Then his hooves just stopped growing. Yes literally they stopped. Tried different things and finally they started growning again this summer. I'm trying to get a little bit more length on them because i'm fearful of him going sore again.
     
    06-29-2011, 12:42 PM
  #20
Trained
I am going to disagree - regardless of breed, you should never see ribs. You should beable to feel them, but not see them.

Here is Nelson. In the middle of your Eventing season. No ribs.



Here is Nelson now. He lost over 100lbs at the previous barn we were at due to ignorant care. I wish I caught it earlier, but at the time I had obtained a new job where I was working 80 hours per pay period, and barely had time to get out to the barn. When I did get out there...I saw a horse loosing weight. When brought up with the BO, I got excuses and I gave explicit instructions, in belief that it would change, but it never did.

So I packed him up, and headed out. He has gained quite a bit, but he still has 100ishlbs to go.



You should NOT see ribs!

I have a lot of work to do to get that topline back, but it'll come. Right now, he's out on pasture 24/7, with access to a round bale at all times. And is being brought in 3x a day to be fed 4lbs per feeding, plus shaved beat pulp, cocosoya and his supplements.

All from smartpak

- SmartDigest Ultra
- Magnesium 3,000
- DMG
- B-L Solution Pellets
- Vitamin E and Selenium

The SmartDigest is for his digestive tract, being 22 he needs it. And the rest is for his muscle development.

So, no ribs should show. Here is my best friends TB. They are doing Training Level this year and doing very well as a matter of fact. Do you see ribs? Nope. Because they shouldn't be there.



Here is my other best friend's 17 year old TB...no ribs....



Get him started on that TC Senior, plenty, plenty, plenty of hay, add some cocosoya and a digestive aid supplement. Go from there. If no weight is gained, then I would look into getting him scoped and assessed.

Start with 6lbs a day. 3lbs per feeding.
     

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