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Rain rot

This is a discussion on Rain rot within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Actinomy horses
  • Actinomy+Vetes+

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    01-09-2013, 09:33 AM
  #11
Foal
Where did you purchase your Vitamin A? Any certain brand or type I need to look at?
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    01-09-2013, 09:44 AM
  #12
Green Broke
AGRIpharm Vita-Jec Vita E A & D - 250 mL - Mills Fleet Farm

This is the stuff, correct Cherie?
     
    01-09-2013, 10:04 AM
  #13
Super Moderator
Here is the one we use. Vitamin AD Agri-labs (Cattle Health - Injectable Vitamins)
We get it from Valley Vet.
     
    01-09-2013, 11:28 AM
  #14
Started
If you're at all reluctant to does the colt, dose the mare (which you need to do anyway) twice a few days apart and let him get the A from her milk. Put off weaning him for another week. Worth a try and less traumatic for him. Do not pick at the scabs.
     
    01-09-2013, 11:33 AM
  #15
Foal
I am a vet tech at a large and small animal vet clinic and rain rot is caused the the organism dermatophilus congolensis. Contact with oxygen help kills it, so you have to get any long thick hair off the area if there is any, and pick the scabs off to open the area up to the air. Since picking scabs hurts, it helps to soften the scabs by wetting them which helps loosen them from the skin. Then clean it with a antimicrobial and antibacterial shampoo and rinse according to directions, being sure the area is dried thoroughly. Don't apply any ointments, medicated or otherwise, because they block oxygen contact and allow the organism to thrive. Applying an iodine solution once daily for about a week along with the shampooing will also help.
     
    01-09-2013, 12:17 PM
  #16
Super Moderator
I am aware the Dermatophilus Congolensis is one of the organisms that can be isolated from the sores on a horse with rain rot. Some Fungi can also often be isolated from these lesions. BUT, if a horse has adequate levels of Vitamin A, it has a healthy immune system and healthy skin and you cannot give it to them. You should try it.

Do you not find it funny that only one or a few horses out of a herd get it unless they are all in poor shape? These organisms are present normally in about all soil. They are normal flora and not pathogenic if a horse is healthy

You would not believe how many Vets I have told this to and they tried it and were amazed that Vitamin A worked better than all of the treatments in the World, BUT it did not make them as much money. I quit treating it and quit disinfecting equipment about 40 years ago.

The same thing is true of lice. You cannot give them to a horse with a good immune system and adequate Vitamin A.

This is NOT true of Ringworm or 'girth itch. It IS contagious, needs to be treated and equipment needs to be disinfected.
     
    01-09-2013, 01:00 PM
  #17
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
I am aware the Dermatophilus Congolensis is one of the organisms that can be isolated from the sores on a horse with rain rot. Some Fungi can also often be isolated from these lesions. BUT, if a horse has adequate levels of Vitamin A, it has a healthy immune system and healthy skin and you cannot give it to them. You should try it.

Do you not find it funny that only one or a few horses out of a herd get it unless they are all in poor shape? These organisms are present normally in about all soil. They are normal flora and not pathogenic if a horse is healthy

You would not believe how many Vets I have told this to and they tried it and were amazed that Vitamin A worked better than all of the treatments in the World, BUT it did not make them as much money. I quit treating it and quit disinfecting equipment about 40 years ago.

The same thing is true of lice. You cannot give them to a horse with a good immune system and adequate Vitamin A.

This is NOT true of Ringworm or 'girth itch. It IS contagious, needs to be treated and equipment needs to be disinfected.
Dermatophilus congolensis is not a fungus, it's an actinomycetes, which behaves like both bacteria and fungi. People believe that it's present in soil, however, this has not been proven. It IS carried on the horse who has it in his skin, but the horse who has this organism in his skin may or may not be affected.

As for the Vit A therapy, since it's a fat soluble vitamin caution should be used in giving over the recommended dose. Too much Vit A can also cause problems. Recommended guidelines can be found at several veterinary school web sites. I"m not saying you are using it wrong, but some people may go overboard thinking if a little is a good thing, a lot will be better. Not true most of the time about most things! Lol

Just an aside here... we constantly get dog owners who will argue when you tell them what they should be doing. They will say, "Well, MY BREEDER told me to do this-or-that!" (And you wouldn't believe some of the crazy things they will tell you!) So I hold out my hands and say,"Let me see, on the one hand there you have your veterinarian who went through years of vet school, has been practicing for [blank] years, and keeps his continuing education up to date. On the other hand, you have your breeder who didn't go to vet school but someone told them about this or they read it in a dog magazine. I can tell you whose advise I'd take!" Then the smart ones will get it. Lol
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    01-09-2013, 04:40 PM
  #18
Super Moderator
I know it is not a fungus, but it, like other bacteria and several fungi can be isolated from skin scrapings. Even Pseudomonas can be found in lesions, (which, of course, can be very pathogenic). All of these bacteria and fungi are found naturally in soil. They only become pathogenic when a horse's immune system and skin health allow it to.

5cc of injectable vitamin A given orally is far from a toxic dose. Since it is stored in the liver, a horse can store a lot of it without any toxic reactions. It would have to be dosed in huge quantities over a long period of time to see any problems. The feed supplement we recommed once a horse has been started on Vitamin A is Farnam's Mare Plus. If a horse is on a daily grain ration, it is easy to feed it. Not so much when horses are run out in large groups.

It was first recommended to me by a nutritionist with a PhD in livestock nutrition that worked for the Moorman Mineral Company. He also started me supplementing Calcium, Magnesium and Zinc to horses on grass hay. I got very sound advice from him and have followed it for more than 40 years with nothing but excellent results. After addressing dietary issues, I never again had a foal born with weak or crooked legs, never had any breeding problems if infections were not present, never had to 'clean' another mare and had fewer eye problems like goopy, crusty eyes. Does it not seem strange that all of these problems show up in horses in poor condition or well-cared for horses in the winter and spring months when hay has lost its Vitamin A and there is no green grass? Obviously it would be best if a horse could get all of the Vitamin A they needed from their natural diet. Winter stops that -- but then it also stops them from having foals out of season. There is a 'natural' reason for mares to stay out of any fertile heats until there is green grass and they are naturally shedding. This is the same time that they start getting sufficient Vitamin A again.

He showed ranchers and dairymen how to keep calves healthy, how to get optimum healthy growth from calves and foals, how to get cows to breed back consistently in 60 days or less after calving, how to avoid Milk Fever and most importantly, how to keep Vet bills down. I wish I had 'picked his brain' more than I did because he never led me wrong. The Moorman Mineral Company was faaar ahead of their time. There is a reason that the Vets where I used to live sent all of their tough re-hab cases to me that they did not want to bother with. [I also used to run all of the bacterial cultures for the local Vet clinic back then, bred several mares for the Vets, and collected stallions and did semen evaluations for them back then.]

You can keep treating and re-treating Rain Rot cases all you want, but if you add 100,000 IU units of Vitamin A to a horse's daily diet, you will never have to treat another one. BUT, there is a lot less money to be made preventing it and treating it with diet like it should be addressed than selling toxic substances to kill it. .
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    01-09-2013, 05:14 PM
  #19
Foal
Absorbine Medicated Spray works amazing. Just cleared up a case on my gelding last week!
     
    01-09-2013, 05:22 PM
  #20
Green Broke
I would not give a Vit unless it is water soluble. This way if it is not needed by the body , the excess will be peed out. I would try the shampoos, iodine or 50/50 listerine. It may sting, but if it works it is better than the agony of icky itchy scabby skin.
     

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colt, rain rot, wean

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