Seedy Toe (hooves)
   

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Seedy Toe (hooves)

This is a discussion on Seedy Toe (hooves) within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Seedy toe treatment horse
  • seedy toe in barefoot horses

 
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    10-15-2008, 06:28 PM
  #1
Foal
Seedy Toe (hooves)

Does anyone know anything about Seedy Toe in horse hooves?
     
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    10-15-2008, 10:02 PM
  #2
Weanling
What did you want to know??
     
    10-15-2008, 10:15 PM
  #3
Showing
Hoof Care

This site has a little information on it. Does your horse have it?
     
    10-17-2008, 06:53 PM
  #4
Started
I believe seedy toe is simply fungus that grows in the stretched "white line" area due to the flaring that occurs when toes are not trimmed properly. Treat with ACV soaks and keep the outer wall out of ground contact by backing up the toe from the top by beveling the wall. This will allow the hoof wall that grows from the top to remain attached rather than being pulled away with each step. The best way to keep fungus out of the "whiteline" is to keep the line tight.. Remove flares.
     
    10-17-2008, 10:07 PM
  #5
Weanling
Some people think a simple stretched white line as seedy toe, but it is actually a hollow pocket created by a fungus that's entered a weak white line. Horses with shoes may be more prone to it, due to several factors from the general nature of wearing shoes. Nails introduce an easy path, the toe will usually have more stress on it than a beveled trim, and the shoe holds more dirt/mud/manure/moisture that breeds fungus and bacteria, plus the shoe itself is tight up against the foot, and doesn't allow much air in that area to dry it. Also, shoes slow blood flow, no matter how good the farrier, and the germs take advantage more easily.

Once it starts, it can become bad enough to nescessitate a "re-section" where a large portion is removed to allow meds complete access. Most of the time, you can avoid that by removing the shoes, soaking with the appropriate meds and a good trim. ACV is good, but may not always take care of it, and your farrier or vet can recommend what is right in your situation. If it persists, or comes back, something in your horse's daily routine needs a change, either change in trims or a cleaner environment. Sometimes, it can be a side-effect of chronic founder, the laminae seem to be forever weaker and diet plays a major factor. Cutting back on sugars/starches helps with those horses, as the fungus seems to be opportunistic, and horses that have diabetic-like issues will be more prone to foot problems (like founder, seedy toe, thrush, and canker). Takes experience to know what exactly you are dealing with. Even with a great barefoot trim, if it isn't frequent enough, the white line will beging to stretch, allowing for the infection, so be sure to stay on a regular trim cycle, even if the hooves "look okay" as barefoot hooves tend to look good longer, but they still need to be done in the usual 6-8 weeks cycle.
     
    10-19-2008, 11:42 PM
  #6
Foal
Thanx for all the help...i will give theses suggestions a try!
     
    10-20-2008, 07:02 AM
  #7
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoothooves    
Some people think a simple stretched white line as seedy toe, but it is actually a hollow pocket created by a fungus that's entered a weak white line. Horses with shoes may be more prone to it, due to several factors from the general nature of wearing shoes. Nails introduce an easy path, the toe will usually have more stress on it than a beveled trim, and the shoe holds more dirt/mud/manure/moisture that breeds fungus and bacteria, plus the shoe itself is tight up against the foot, and doesn't allow much air in that area to dry it. Also, shoes slow blood flow, no matter how good the farrier, and the germs take advantage more easily.

Once it starts, it can become bad enough to nescessitate a "re-section" where a large portion is removed to allow meds complete access. Most of the time, you can avoid that by removing the shoes, soaking with the appropriate meds and a good trim. ACV is good, but may not always take care of it, and your farrier or vet can recommend what is right in your situation. If it persists, or comes back, something in your horse's daily routine needs a change, either change in trims or a cleaner environment. Sometimes, it can be a side-effect of chronic founder, the laminae seem to be forever weaker and diet plays a major factor. Cutting back on sugars/starches helps with those horses, as the fungus seems to be opportunistic, and horses that have diabetic-like issues will be more prone to foot problems (like founder, seedy toe, thrush, and canker). Takes experience to know what exactly you are dealing with. Even with a great barefoot trim, if it isn't frequent enough, the white line will beging to stretch, allowing for the infection, so be sure to stay on a regular trim cycle, even if the hooves "look okay" as barefoot hooves tend to look good longer, but they still need to be done in the usual 6-8 weeks cycle.

From doing lots of non bias research these seem to be the two biggest cause I have found... shoes have NOTHING to do with Seedy toe and the research I did showed it in barefoot hooves MORE then shod hooves!! LOL
     
    10-20-2008, 02:02 PM
  #8
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
From doing lots of non bias research these seem to be the two biggest cause I have found... shoes have NOTHING to do with Seedy toe and the research I did showed it in barefoot hooves MORE then shod hooves!! LOL

I would sure like to know your sources. And were the barefoot horses just out of shoes? Were the barefoot horses just without shoes and in a pasture trim? Or were they given the barefoot trim that is supposed to mimic natural wear and tear? The trim and freqeuncy has a big influence and in my own experience, I see more of it in horses I'm pulling the shoes off of, than even ones that just had pasture trims. There's more problems, period. History of founder is probaby the leading factor, but many shod horses have severely stretched white lines yet never had an acute bout of laminitis, and were becoming infected, and on the road to seedy toe.
I'm not claimimg barefoot trims to be a magical fix. Some horses have crummy feet, regardless of competant trimming or shoeing. Thay just do better than with shoes relatively. Yes, any horse can get seedy toe or any other ailment. It's far less likely and chronic conditions can improve where shoes have failed, when the horse gets proper barefoot trims> I think, also, you are likely to see barefoot trimmers to display any ailments and how they fix it, and farriers tend to be less open about it. They may see the problem and work to fix it, yet never feel it necessary to mention it. Could be they don't think the owner needs those details, could be a bit of ego with some,:roll: to admit there's anything wrong, would be like saying they aren't competant, or they don't want to mess with explaining every detail when they have another client waiting. In the, what I call "farrier culture" it's generally that you tell the owner the big things and the minor things aren't told. After all, the farrier knows more than the owners it's their job. But us barefooters tend to point out every flaw and make a case study out of it, a bit of ego on our side, as well,:roll: to show off what we can fix.
And don't forget, many more people attempt to trim without training than attempt to shoe which could scew the results un your research.
     
    10-20-2008, 02:30 PM
  #9
Started
If you have a farrier or trimmer NOT telling you about your horses problems they need FIRED!!!

I dont' use farrier or trimmer sites when I search I look for University studies pertaining to it ... I am NOT closed minded I see all sides

I have one barefoot one in front shoes and one with full shoes
     
    10-20-2008, 02:38 PM
  #10
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggysue    
if you have a farrier or trimmer NOT telling you about your horses problems they need FIRED!!!

I dont' use farrier or trimmer sites when I search I look for University studies pertaining to it ... I am NOT closed minded I see all sides

I have one barefoot one in front shoes and one with full shoes

Well, I dont' think many universities have really done a ton of research on it, compared to shoes, yet. Excellent sources of information, just the same. . If you've studied red delcious apples for 75 years, then do research on golden delicious for 5,and say that reds are definitely the best and golds have more worms, is it really a fair statement?

And yes, farriers/trimmers SHOULD tell the owners everything, but many don't. If you could be a fly on the wall when farriers get together casually, and you'd probably be suprised.
     

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