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Showing questions and advice? Hock problems? Walk trot?

3K views 36 replies 8 participants last post by  RZstoney98 
#1 ·
I currently own an 18 year old AQHA gelding, I bought him around this time last year and he has been my first show horse and all around very wonderful for me. However, about 6 months ago, he became unable to pick up his right lead. This led me to first try the chiro, then finally, in January, a new vet. Vet said that my horse has a degenerative joint disease in his hocks. This has led to a growth in his left hind hock along with all other old age degeneration (I will attach x-ray of his left hind hock and a photo showing the lump from the outside). The vet also said that even with injections of any kind, he was to the point that it would only really help him for 4-5 months before they would actually be innefective on him. This was extremely upsetting as we did have him vetchecked when we bought him, and he passed completely aside from normal degeneration. This led me to do some looking (as I thought the growth had come on awfully fast), and I found pictures from when he was 11, and you can clearly see the lump on his hock. Judging from this, I'm guessing it was missed, passed over, or ignored in his initial vet check. So it has been around for years, and for some reason only just now started to bother him. He was then promptly moved to 24/7 pasture and (although his weight has dropped a little), his joints have greatly improved and I have been riding him (he's the type who needs a job to stay sane). My barn owner and a few other have suggested that I need to show him again. And I absolutely would love to, he absolutely loves showing also. But I have the reoccurring issue of him being unable to pick up his right lead. Although I could always show walk trot, there aren't many opportunities for that in my area, and I wouldn't be able to show 4H (I'm a sophomore in high school, and that was something I was really hoping I could get into this year. My first club show of the year would've been the Saturday after next. My tentative plan is to take him and enter in the w/t open western Pleasure (it is the only w/t class with a turnout of more than one or two people). This will allow me to see what the turnout is like and enjoy a class. Anyway, I guess I'm just looking for suggestions to show and what I could do for my gelding. He currently has no maintenance except for a feed joint supplement which has all in all done so much for his joints and movement. I haven't looked into any further maintenance due to what the vet said about injections. Do you think there is any way to help him more than I already have? Any way I could ever show lope again with him? Or that I should send in the x rays to another vet for a second opinion? If you have any questions don't hesitate to let me know, thank you.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
I should also add, the vet seemed to believe that surgical removal of the lump would only cause his hocks to fuse back unusually, and that it would not actually fix the problem. The vet also did not x ray both hocks, but seemed to feel very strongly, that aside from the actual growth, it would not be much better. However, (for an entirely different reason), his knees have been x rayed and are PERFECT (I'm talking they look like he's 4).
 
#28 · (Edited)
Yes, there is extra bone growth, in a degenerative joint disease, people or otherwise, with narrowing of the joint space, but , no, surgical removal is not the answer.
Sometimes, depending on where, fusion will relieve all pain, but there is some compromise in movement, when that joint becomes fused
If you can manage now, with injections, that is the best option
Yes, medication, far as anti inflammatories, can help keep a horse, or a human, for that matter, going for quite a long time. I should know, as they kept me riding for along time, putting off eventual complete knee replaces, until that became the only choice left
Previcox is known as a Cox 2 inhibitor, non steroidal anti inflamatory, so a bit of a different action then bute, and a bit less of a problem, far GI side effects

Here is some info

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/35984/problems-with-previcox-overdose
 
#3 ·
Have you considered taking him to a place like Texas A&M vet school for them to do a work-up on him and offer a plan of solutions for you?
I would at the least speak to them and send them the x-ray for a consultation....a second opinion.

You need a specialty vet for lameness issues...
Some vets are better than others and some vets have more experience in certain matters than others.
That is nothing against your vet at all...but I would go get that second opinion and look-see before just "giving-up" on a dream...

I also find it interesting the horse had the ailment yet was sound and "passed" his PPE....
Then you do more research and find this clearly existed for many ears...
Someone was doing something that worked when you bought this guy...you need to find out what the secret is and get back to doing it although as he ages he may not be capable of continuing to be campaigned and shown hard...

Just a thought...
:runninghorse2:.....
 
#5 ·
No, I was not aware of that option, thank you though! I also find it rather interesting and a little suspicious. I have considered messaging his old barn owner and asking if she had any maintenance advice for him, but (for lack of a better word) she is crazy, and extremely hard to get through to.
 
#4 ·
If you have the money, I would try the join injections as well as a IM injectable like Adequan. Could also see if you can get your hands on some Back on Track hock boots.

Did the vet say if he was fusing? I'm not an expert at reading horse xrays, but my horse has fully fused hocks and yours has a lot more joint space than him. One thing that is done for during hocks is to chemically induce the fusing and get it all over with.

Otherwise, you may have to resign yourself to either w/t or lease/sell to a beginner.
 
#9 ·
I would tend to believe the vet that this is a permanent issue. I believe you can see the growth that comes off the long bone on the lower left hand side of the xray. It looks like a spur that goes up and apparently causes pain with movement.
It couldn't hurt to get a second opinion, but joint injections tend to decrease inflammation, and some of the other injected drugs help with adding lubrication to the joint cartilages. This issue is not actually within the joint cartilages. I don't see how you could permanently control that pain and inflammation without surgery, and if it is not possible to do surgery there I would assume the horse going to have worsening pain with movement as it continues to calcify and/or grow.

If I understand it right, hocks cause pain when arthritic because the movement causes pain within the joint. If the hocks fuse altogether, the horse does not have pain anymore because there is no movement within the joint. But this joint does not look like it is fusing, so the movement is going to keep happening and causing pain.
I'd think it would be very easy to get a second opinion by sending this xray to a large vet specialty.

A friend recently bought an 11 year old horse with a similar hock growth. The vet advised to put the horse to sleep because his movement would always cause him pain, and my friend took his advice. The horse had always been sound but had never had hock xrays until developing this nagging lameness.
 
#10 ·
So, you second the vets opinion in his specific issue not being surgically removeable? I'm thinking it potentially could be so long as it's not attached higher up too, but I'm really not entirely sure. And also, I have my doubts about injections (including intramuscular and things like adequan) as, with exception of the big picture, it is such a localized small sized problem. Thoughts?
 
#14 ·
May come to both, I think of a second opinion as just that and a ...second plan so to speak.

Whereas the other stuff I'd do either way.

I'm honestly no expert. I would do whatever joint injections the vet recommended for as long as he gets benefit from them. I would also go with an IM joint supplement (whatever the vet recommended) and an oral (but he's already getting one right?). I would also look into herbal anti-inflammatory/pain meds and possibly something like Previcox for long term use, or bute to have on hand for bad days, etc. Definitely sounds like there is pain going on. It's a little tricky as it looks like it's not the joint but an outer piece. I still think day to day management would be similar to a horse with arthritis but would definitely have a long talk with your vet about that and about continuing to ride him as he is happier that way.

I would definitely be looking into managing as is regardless of how far you pursue things.
 
#23 ·
I am updating to say that we did just have him to the vet and they did inject his hocks. We've been instructed to give him 2-3 days stall rest, then it should be a week or so before he feels better. The only real concern here is that his right hock has a much smaller joint space so I'm hoping that stays decently accessible. After that we'll just have to see how long the injections last before we have to take him back in. He's also on previcox to be given when I ride as an anti-inflammatory. Overall I think this was a good diagnosis for him and I think that time will tell!
 
#24 ·
I am updating to say that we did just have him to the vet and they did inject his hocks. We've been instructed to give him 2-3 days stall rest, then it should be a week or so before he feels better.
Yup, sounds pretty standard!

I'll bet you'll be amazed at how good he moves after a week!

The only real concern here is that his right hock has a much smaller joint space so I'm hoping that stays decently accessible. After that we'll just have to see how long the injections last before we have to take him back in.
Just depends on the horse on how often you'll need to do it. Usually, you'll be able to tell when he starts having the same problems pop up again. Then go do it again! At the minimum, you should get 3 months out of them. if you don't, then I would suspect that something else is wrong besides the hocks.

Yes, sometimes those joint spaces get rather narrow while fusing. It is what it is.

He's also on previcox to be given when I ride as an anti-inflammatory.
Curious what dosage the vet gave you?

Honestly, I don't know that I would do the Previcox right now. Because if you do BOTH the previcox at the injections at the same time, how will you know how much the injections helped if he's on a pain reliver?

He might need the Previcox too. That's entirely possible. (My Red did too because the injections didn't 100% take care of his pain.) But again, you won't know if you don't try without the Previcox first and see how he does. But that's just my two cents.
 
#27 ·
When my Barn had a horse on Previcox, we would give him half? a pill in his morning grain on the days he was ridden, which was usually 3-4 x a week. This guy was pretty crippled and it served him well for his walk trot rides. We had those daily pill containers so the owner could be sure he had gotten it that day. Just requires good communication with the barn staff.
(Or was it 1/4 daily with 1/2 when he was ridden?)
 
#29 ·
That extra bone growth, is part of that degenerative process, and if surgery was the answer, joint replacements would not be required!

'Bone spurs are of two basic types. One is the kind that arises near a joint with osteoarthritis or degenerative joint disease. In this situation, the cartilage has been worn through and the bone responds by growing extra bone at the margins of the joint surface. These "spurs" carry the formal name "osteophytes."
 
#31 ·
"Previcox is not like bute. You don't get the same "instant" effect from one dose. Previcox has to "build up" in the system to be effective. You start by giving a loading dose on the first day (which is three 57 mg pills) and then you give one 57 mg pill each day thereafter to maintain that dose in the system."

Not sure on that dosage at all, most horses don't need a full pill daily and I've never heard of the loading dose? I'd say most just get 1/4 pill ime (not all though). But absolutely agree with the first part of that. It needs to be a long term thing, or just use bute if you're doing it when you ride. You can even do every other day if need be but you can do that because of the build up in the system, unlike other NSAIDS.
 
#32 ·
@Yogiwick
I specifically posted dosage for a reason. The 57 mg tabs are the "single" tabs. A lot of people will buy the larger 227 tabs and break them into 4 pieces. I don't like doing that because they don't always break correctly and then you are giving uneven doses to your horse.

So when you say "full pill" you need to specify what mg because there are 2 sizes available.
 
#35 ·
Another update! I was able to go out to the barn last night. I will say he seemed much happier at first notice (he even ran clear up to me from the back of his field and jumped the ditch when I called his name - usually he just slowly walks). So the attitude change was very obvious all the way around. I also lunged him both ways and his range of motion is overall much improved. He is now completely sound to the left at all gaits, to the right he is sound walk trot (only looks slightly off at the trot because I know how he moves so well), but he still definitely does not have a right lead and gets cranky being asked for it. So I will say that injections certainly helped him a lot and we will definitely continue them! However both vets have expressed the opinion that the large spavin on his left hock is really what's bothering him. To address this I plan on giving the injections a little more time (it's been 5 days), and if they don't seem to help it any more I may have to try and work it out with my barn owner to get the previcox to him daily or every other day (although with my barn this would be no guarantee every day). I also have the option to speak with the vet about shockwave treatment or something along those lines. Anyway, thank you all for all of your advice throughout this thread as I've said before!!
 
#37 ·
Updating to say I had my first ride back today! Overall he very clearly felt better, but was still very lazy and stubborn (he always is in an arena; it's why I've primarily decided to retire him from the show ring anyway). Tomorrow I plan on trail riding unless he is sore. I will update on how he does with this. As for my ride I did notice his hock popped pretty loudly sometimes when he would turn tightly to the left at the trot (it used to be every step when he would trot either way with both legs) and I could hear them very quietly clicking as I walked him to cool off and rinse off. However, I'm telling myself not to worry about this too much as he had absolutely no limp or unsoundness while walking when this was going on. Overall I do think this has helped him so much. Here are two pictures from today just for fun!! Don't mind the "white spot"on his hock in the first photo, its the light catching the shaved spot from his injection.:)
 

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