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Snickers and the mysterious hind end saga

This is a discussion on Snickers and the mysterious hind end saga within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        02-25-2013, 01:57 PM
      #71
    Started
    http://www.re-leve.com/documents/Fee...edisorders.pdf

    In reading this article today, I found some points quite interesting....

    On page 3, it talks about the differences between the EPSM and PSSM....
    It talks about PSSM horses having calm dispositions. It talks about the horses being unable to stand etc. While Snickers doesn't lay down or anything, she is fidgety...not sure if that is because she is young or just her personality though. It also states, that in PSSM the horses would not have the muscle loss and backing problems etc. like in EPSM. Wow.
         
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        02-25-2013, 02:27 PM
      #72
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oldhorselady    
    Would you say she has muscle wasting? I thought if she did, that you would really be able to tell by looking at her....I also have no eye for that kind of stuff. She has definitely gained muscle over the past year and filled out.

    The only thing she doesn't have, at least yet, are the symptoms:

    Muscle wasting?
    Trembling after work
    Difficulty rising and backing
    Lying down suddenly
    Tying up

    But, if it is EPSM, maybe it is a milder version or just hasn't happend yet.

    Thanks for the support.
    Like I said, I know only what I read. What I can imagine is that her being young might be one reason she might have less symptoms. Another I can think of is nutrition. I don't think she ever ate like a drafty in work would.
    Tying up happens after work or after a starch overload. Muscle wasting....hard to tell from video and pics. Plus she's a bit rotund at the moment.

    But, if you think about what job muscles have....it could be that lack/waste of muscle causes the gait abnormalities.

    Btw, I'm having fun guessing and reasoning....and all will be stored for later use
         
        02-25-2013, 02:48 PM
      #73
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
    Like I said, I know only what I read. What I can imagine is that her being young might be one reason she might have less symptoms. Another I can think of is nutrition. I don't think she ever ate like a drafty in work would.
    Tying up happens after work or after a starch overload. Muscle wasting....hard to tell from video and pics. Plus she's a bit rotund at the moment.

    But, if you think about what job muscles have....it could be that lack/waste of muscle causes the gait abnormalities.

    Btw, I'm having fun guessing and reasoning....and all will be stored for later use

    You are right desert....once diet is completely adjusted with the hay nets for weight loss and then adding the full ration of oil, I think that will play a big part over the next several weeks.

    The muscle part makes much more sense now, especially after learning more about the PSSM....so much so, it brought me to tears...because I feel like I am not crazy and it's a relief. Same reaction when my daughter was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome after so many other ailments that didn't seem to quite fit.

    Onward we go.....at least I have a direction now.
         
        02-25-2013, 02:55 PM
      #74
    Weanling
    Subbing as I would like to know the diagnosis.

    Keep at it! I hope it all comes together soon.
         
        02-25-2013, 03:05 PM
      #75
    Trained
    I just went and searched on my tried and true favourite health website thehorse.com

    Long long and very interesting article came up. The diet change seems to be the only cure there is for EPSM. It will take up to 6 months to see a change, it might get worse before it gets better, there is not really proof of it being genetic, the biopsy is sometimes misleading. Lots of owners change diet and, if horse has improved after 6 months, have their diagnosis.

    It did name a lot of symptoms, says some horses show them more, others more subtle.
    But it fits Snickers.

    TheHorse: Your Guide to Equine Health Care | TheHorse.com
    Sign up, it's free, and type "EPSM" in the search bar. Firs article who comes up, big horses big appetite.
         
        02-25-2013, 09:51 PM
      #76
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
    I just went and searched on my tried and true favourite health website thehorse.com

    Long long and very interesting article came up. The diet change seems to be the only cure there is for EPSM. It will take up to 6 months to see a change, it might get worse before it gets better, there is not really proof of it being genetic, the biopsy is sometimes misleading. Lots of owners change diet and, if horse has improved after 6 months, have their diagnosis.

    It did name a lot of symptoms, says some horses show them more, others more subtle.
    But it fits Snickers.

    TheHorse: Your Guide to Equine Health Care | TheHorse.com
    Sign up, it's free, and type "EPSM" in the search bar. Firs article who comes up, big horses big appetite.
    I will definitely read that, thank you.

    I went on a ride today on Belle, while Snickers was lead by my daughter. We rode up and down the side of the mountain across the street on one of the boarder patrol gravel roads. I was glad to be behind Snickers so I could see her feet, since I'm usually the one leading her. The slope was pretty good incline. It kills me when I've walked it. Snickers seemed fine on the way up mostly. She would stop to take a break every so often. Going down, she didn't stop, but you could clearly see that her hind fetlocks would pop and drag after a little while or when the slope got a little steeper.

    At this point, I would be surprised if she didn't have EPSM/PSSM.

    I weighed their hay today and they get about 40lbs a day for the two of them and often have some left over....so they are not getting too much for sure. My small hole haybags are on backorder. So, I'm waiting. Just doubled the large hole one I have.
         
        02-25-2013, 10:23 PM
      #77
    Trained
    Could you manage to make one out of bale strings? Requires no hardware and a couple of hours time. I can walk you through it if you want
         
        02-25-2013, 10:23 PM
      #78
    Started
    Thanks again desert....I read the article and am very familiar with Dr. Valentine and the diet. So, even though the girls have been on a low sugar, low carb diet......they still need that fat increase for the diet to be successful. I hadn't added the fat in the past because of them being overweight. But, what I've learned is, that these horses will actually soak up the added fat like a sponge, since their muscles need it to use for energy. Plus you have to reach that 20-25% level in order for it to be effective. So, now it makes sense to me.

    They are getting their portion of their ration balancer mixed with soaked alfalfa cubes and the oil. It will get harder as I increase their oil....Belle will have to have 4 cups...so, hopefully she will keep eating. I'll increase the soaked alfalfa cubes if I need to. I don't want to do the rice bran. Then they get the 40 pounds of hay a day between the two of them and their pasture, later on.

    I really feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I don't think of it as a death sentence. I hope she improved over the months. But a walking trail horse for me is good too as long as she can before she is retired later in life.
         
        02-25-2013, 10:29 PM
      #79
    Trained
    There's always the possibility of adding Purina Amplify, or the Omega Horseshine, which gives extra fat AND "matter" to put the oil in.
    Oldhorselady likes this.
         
        02-25-2013, 10:41 PM
      #80
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
    Could you manage to make one out of bale strings? Requires no hardware and a couple of hours time. I can walk you through it if you want
    Sure! I'm still unemployed and nothing but time to kill out there!
         

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