Sore?
 
 

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Sore?

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    10-11-2011, 07:26 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Sore?

Rodeo had his last trim 2 weeks ago. The trim before that was horrid! Uneven, dished quarters, and took WAY too much foot off the poor guy. Needless to say, I wasnt there for the trim as I had just moved. But I was told that he was sore several days after the trim.

Now here in NC, he got his first trim from the new farrier here. Everything seemed fine until a day or two after the trim. He seemed sore in his front right(white leg). I brushed it off, as he has been a little tender here and there after trims. Well, its been 2 weeks now, and he's still tender on that foot/leg. I took him out of the stall, and once he hit the concrete, he took a short step, which looked painful for him. I walked him to the grooming area. Picked all four feet, and it seemed to be better, but not 100%. I took him out of the barn, and once he hit the gravel in the driveway, he took a few short steps again. I trotted him in the arena a bit, and even took a video....
I didnt see anything obvious in the video. Once done with that, I walked him back into the barn, and he didnt miss a step. What do you think it could be?
Here are some pics I took today....






Farrier comes out again tomorrow, not for me, but for the other horses. Im thinking of maybe having him hoof test him, or just take a look to see what he thinks.

Let me know if you see anything obvious that I could be missing. Thanks
     
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    10-11-2011, 11:04 PM
  #2
Trained
Can't say from that sole angle, but he looks quite flat at the sole? That there is little depth at all from the sole at the point of the frog to the outer sole? Whether this was done by the last bad farrier or happened from other reasons, he may have very little sole protecting P3 In that case, I'd be protecting his feet where necessary with boots or such, to avoid bruising. His heels look pretty good. How do they feel?

Again, can't say from those pics, but it appears the outside heel could poss be a bit higher & more forward, and the outside quarter looks too long, esp. Considering the flaring, so I'd probably lower it until it's the same height above the sole as the rest.
     
    10-12-2011, 06:08 AM
  #3
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Can't say from that sole angle, but he looks quite flat at the sole? That there is little depth at all from the sole at the point of the frog to the outer sole? Whether this was done by the last bad farrier or happened from other reasons, he may have very little sole protecting P3 In that case, I'd be protecting his feet where necessary with boots or such, to avoid bruising. His heels look pretty good. How do they feel?

Again, can't say from those pics, but it appears the outside heel could poss be a bit higher & more forward, and the outside quarter looks too long, esp. Considering the flaring, so I'd probably lower it until it's the same height above the sole as the rest.
Thanks for the reply loosie.....I was thinking maybe that too much wall was taken off, and therefore maybe the sole is contacting the ground too much?

His feet feel good. Their firm, and hard, nothing obvious jumps out at me. No heat, or swelling in any of his feet, and or legs. He just seems VERY sore and tender on certain surfaces, so much so I don't even want to walk him on them. I did notice that the bars of his feet....I can circle it later if Im not explaining it right, seem to be too big, maybe I should ask the farrier to trim them back a little bit more?
     
    10-12-2011, 10:27 PM
  #4
Trained
Yeah, the bars could perhaps be taken down a bit more. Depends on the environment among other things, I reckon, as to whether his walls may be too short, but the outside quarters aren't. The outer walls could do with a bit more of a 'roll' IMO.

If a horse has thin, flat soles, while they do still need the soles to be in use in order to properly support the horse & to grow thicker, with not enough 'armour' there, forcing them onto thin soles(or thinning them by with bad trimming) will often be uncomfortable on hard ground and can be potentially damaging, when internal structures aren't well protected. That's why he may be tender & why boots &/or pads would likely be a good move, for hard ground at least. Walls shouldn't be too long & overloaded, but soles need protecting if they're not healthy enough to take a support role. So I think you're right in not forcing him to walk on certain surfaces barefoot.
     
    10-12-2011, 10:55 PM
  #5
Weanling
How's the footing in that arena? When I had a horse vet checked recently he looked fine in the arena but was very lame in that same leg on harder ground.

"Soft ground is nice, hard ground is honest," is what the vet said, although the horse I was having checked had a club foot AND ringbone so he'll likely never be completely sound. If it was just a farrier issue with Rodeo he should be fine over time, and I agree with the protective booties. Hope he feels better soon! :(
     
    10-13-2011, 12:25 PM
  #6
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Yeah, the bars could perhaps be taken down a bit more. Depends on the environment among other things, I reckon, as to whether his walls may be too short, but the outside quarters aren't. The outer walls could do with a bit more of a 'roll' IMO.

If a horse has thin, flat soles, while they do still need the soles to be in use in order to properly support the horse & to grow thicker, with not enough 'armour' there, forcing them onto thin soles(or thinning them by with bad trimming) will often be uncomfortable on hard ground and can be potentially damaging, when internal structures aren't well protected. That's why he may be tender & why boots &/or pads would likely be a good move, for hard ground at least. Walls shouldn't be too long & overloaded, but soles need protecting if they're not healthy enough to take a support role. So I think you're right in not forcing him to walk on certain surfaces barefoot.
Thanks loosie! I agree 100% that his walls look they have been taken down too much!! Now the question is, should I have this farrier trim Rodeo again when he is due, or should I try to get another highly recommended farrier to come out? As far as boots go, should I really invest in them? I was always under the impression that he shouldnt be sore after a trim, but he has been the past two(which the one, I don't fault him for)....if I should, what do you suggest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2BigReds    
How's the footing in that arena? When I had a horse vet checked recently he looked fine in the arena but was very lame in that same leg on harder ground.

"Soft ground is nice, hard ground is honest," is what the vet said, although the horse I was having checked had a club foot AND ringbone so he'll likely never be completely sound. If it was just a farrier issue with Rodeo he should be fine over time, and I agree with the protective booties. Hope he feels better soon! :(
The footing is nice, on the day I got the video it had just rained, so it was very very wet, but I did want to get a vid of him trotting to see if he did appear off.

I very much like that saying to be honest....like I said, some days he seems fine, like yesterday, he didnt seem sore at all, but the day before he seemed very "ouchy"! Thanks for the posts!!!
     
    10-13-2011, 04:08 PM
  #7
Weanling
Well I know the gelding I just bough a long with many other horses I know are a bit ouchy on hard or gravely ground for a day or two after trimming, but only when they're barefoot. Doesn't seem to bother them in shoes. Not suggesting shoes necessarily, just an observation. :)
     
    10-13-2011, 04:14 PM
  #8
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2BigReds    
Well I know the gelding I just bough a long with many other horses I know are a bit ouchy on hard or gravely ground for a day or two after trimming, but only when they're barefoot. Doesn't seem to bother them in shoes. Not suggesting shoes necessarily, just an observation. :)


If I can, Id like to keep him barefoot. All the farriers, 4 total, have all said he has great, hard feet. I've had three since I've had him(since March this year) the first was great! I went to school with him, and we were taught by the same instructor. I went to Horse School, lol, and took a farrier class the entire time I was there, figured it couldnt help to hurt...but that was almost 2yrs ago now!!

The second farrier I had many, many references from, my former instructor, my previous farrier, even friends that knew him personally. I was not very happy when I saw the pics the farrier sent me after the trim. Therefore, I am going to be at every farrier appointment that Rodeo has.

The third farrier was this last trim. He's only trimmed him once. I know its hard to judge on just one foot, but by looking at this foot, would you use him again? I recently found a barefoot trimmer. More expensive, but from what I can tell he seems to really know his stuff!

What do you guys think?
     
    10-13-2011, 05:41 PM
  #9
Weanling
Personally I think it looks okay, but I don't know a whole lot about shoeing and trimming just yet either! In any case, if this new guy really knows what he's doing, he'll be worth every penny to keep Rodeo comfortable and healthy. :) Unless you're riding him hard daily and/or he has soft feet, which he doesn't, you should be able to keep him barefoot with the right farrier. In some cases shoes are more trouble than they're worth anyway.
     
    10-14-2011, 12:26 AM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimkunas6    
Thanks loosie! I agree 100% that his walls look they have been taken down too much!! Now the question is, should I have this farrier trim Rodeo again when he is due, or should I try to get another highly recommended farrier to come out? As far as boots go, should I really invest in them? I was always under the impression that he shouldnt be sore after a trim, but he has been the past two(which the one, I don't fault him for)....if I should, what do you suggest?
You may have misunderstood what I said about short walls, but to be more particular, IMO if the walls were rasped at ground surface into the sole plane, this was too short - & rasping into sole is more to the point. If the horse works on hard, rough surfaces, such as rocky trails & roads, he wants walls that are close to level with the outer rim of the sole, but if the horse is in a softer &/or wetter environment, then it may be appropriate to leave walls longer, as they will provide more grip & the feet will sink in, so there's not such a worry about peripheral loading or undue mechanical forces on the long walls.

Should you have another farrier - that's the burning question, one that I can't answer. It appears this one *may* have trimmed the feet in the same manner as you would for shoeing - that is, flat on the ground surface. It appears your horse would benefit from the quarters being 'scooped' - trimmed shorter at the ground surface to be a uniform height above the sole plane as the rest of the foot - and the outer walls could maybe be 'rolled' more. If this farrier's only done one trim & the previous one had made the horse sore anyway, I don't think it's reasonable to hold the new farrier responsible necessarily because the horse is still tender.

Should you invest in boots? If the horse cannot comfortably travel bare where you want him to, then IMO he's in need of protection. Whether it's due to farrier error, lack of conditioning for certain surfaces, laminitis, whatever, if your horse is tender on his feet, don't force him to go bare. As for sore after a trim, yes, as a general rule, I agree. Horses should not be tender after a trim, BUT for eg. Sub clinical laminitis may initially show up as tenderness after a trim, farriers can also make honest mistakes, or it could be coincidence or something unrelated that caused tenderness. Whatever the cause, while in the ideal world it wouldn't happen, we're in the real world, so I think it's a good move to keep some boots on hand to be used if/when necessary. As a rule, most horses tend to cope well without back ones, so if you're getting some, I'd get fronts & play it by ear as to the need of backs.

The best boots are the ones that fit your horse best, basically. Easycare have a wide range & lots of info on fitting & other considerations on their site. Haven't personally tried their new trail boots, but they've had rave reviews, including from a few of my clients that use them & they're meant to be so easy, even a farrier can put them on!

Quote:
many other horses I know are a bit ouchy on hard or gravely ground for a day or two after trimming, but only when they're barefoot. Doesn't seem to bother them in shoes.
They can feel their feet a lot better bare, whereas some of the sensation appears to be masked with shoes.

Quote:
Unless you're riding him hard daily and/or he has soft feet, which he doesn't, you should be able to keep him barefoot with the right farrier.
Don't think it's as easy as that all the time. Yes, if you're doing too many hard miles, horse's feet can wear down too much(extra long endurance rides, for eg), especially if it's infrequent, but riding daily or frequently, the healthy hoof can adapt & tends to put out as much hoof as is needed. However, while I'm all for shoeless generally, I think it depends on WAY more than just a good farrier for a horse to be fine on everything required of him without protection. I would hazard a guess that most domestic horses, given their diet, lifestyle, environment, etc, would need hoof protection at least some of the time for work.

**PS... & yes, I do agree he looks like he has good feet overall.
     

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