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Stocking Up?

3K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  Kayella 
#1 ·
So, Henny has been stocking up lately. It's been raining and cold, so he's been stalled up when the weather is nasty. I make sure he gets at least 1-2 hours outside when he is stalled. Otherwise, he's out in the paddock(that has no shelter) 24/7.

There is bilateral swelling in the hinds, although his left hind is a tad more swollen than the other. No heat in the hooves and his legs are the same temp as his body. The swelling does go down with walking and cold hosing, and is gone completely while he's out in his paddock.

Here's where my confusion stems from. He was on stall rest for almost two months after his accident in November. He was getting daily exercise though. He never stocked up once. Granted, he was on Dex and bute at the time and was slowly being weaned off. I did give him a gram of bute in his feed on Thursday, but it did not seem to help at all with the swelling.

His feet are in cruddy condition due to a bad trim. Thin soles, thin hoof walls, and he's got a negative PA. We're working with my vet's personal farrier to get him all corrected going off of radiographs that were taken. He has poor blood flow in his hooves due to their poor condition. So that brings me to my actual question. Would the poor blood flow in his hooves make him more prone to stocking up? I've already contacted my vet to ask and I'm just waiting to hear back. What are y'all's opinions? Attached is a picture of him on Friday evening. He was let out Friday night and his swelling had completely disappeared by morning. Sorry for picture quality!
 

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#2 ·
Well, you have to think of the horse's hooves working as 4 smaller hearts that help to pump blood back into the body with each step. If the horse has poor circulation, either from a bad trim or sitting in his stall all day, the blood does not get pumped back into the body and the swelling happens.

As long as the swelling goes down when you take him out to walk him, you should be alright. You might want to invest in some Back On Track wraps (if they make them in their size) and just put them on for a little bit at a time. But check with your vet just to make sure.

I imagine the Dex and bute used before really helped to keep the swelling at bay, especially if that was the purpose for his head.

You can also try putting a toy or treat roller in his stall to try and encourage him to move while he's in there.

Good luck! Poor Henny! Lily is stuck in her stall for bad weather too. Luckily she has the foaling stall and can almost longe herself in there, haha.
 
#3 ·
Haha, he's got a bunch of stuff in there to keep him moving. A salt/mineral tub, his hay bag which is on the opposite side of the stall from his water, and a jolly ball. I don't think he plays with the ball, though. His stall is 12x12 so it's pretty roomy for him, but not roomy enough. :/ He will be kicked out to his paddock tonight, though! No more rain expected 'til next Wednesday!
 
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#4 ·
I make sure he gets at least 1-2 hours outside when he is stalled. Otherwise, he's out in the paddock(that has no shelter) 24/7.
I would suggest if you absolutely must coop him up, 1-2 hours is not enough, especially if you're not going to actively exercise him. I'd be taking him for at least a handful of walks daily if you're not allowed to let him out. But leaving him out, in company, with a rug on if there's no shelter would be my choice. Horses have spent the last... millions of years evolved to live in the open. A little rain or cold really, truly won't kill him.:lol:

He was on stall rest for almost two months .... He was getting daily exercise though. ...he was on Dex and bute
It is my understanding(could be wrong) that bute & such has no effect on stocking up because it's fluid, not inflammation. It was probably the exercise that helped avoid this problem, although I believe nutritional/systemic probs can cause them to be more or less 'prone'. I must say, if he was well enough for daily exercise, he probably wasn't likely bad enough for cooping up.

His feet are in cruddy condition due to a bad trim. Thin soles, thin hoof walls, and he's got a negative PA. ...He has poor blood flow in his hooves
Just from A bad trim? I suspect there's more to that. Poor blood flow will also be improved from good hoof function/exercise. Yes, lack of exercise & circulation will lead to stocking up.

Well, you have to think of the horse's hooves working as 4 smaller hearts
A common myth, but not actually correct.:wink: If hooves are functioning properly, blood flow is slowed down when forced through the hoof.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the info, Loosie. It really is difficult to safely get him some daily exercise. I hand walk/trot him every day, but that it the best I can do as he's 10 months old and I won't be lunging him. He was let out in his paddock last night and it did rain. I checked on him this morning and he did not melt! :lol: I just worry because I'm in coastal Texas so we're used to hot, hot, humid weather, so cold and wet is something he's not used to. At the same time, it's not cold enough to blanket! He's getting a visit from the farrier this weekend and we are slowly repairing his feet.

He is currently on 3 lbs of Purina Enrich 32, a pound of alfalfa pellets, and about 13 pounds of coastal hay. I feed the hay in a slow feed bag, and it lasts him a full day so he's technically on "free choice" hay. But he was out in his paddock last night(the only horse let out) and he didn't seem to be any worse for wear. :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info, Loosie. It really is difficult to safely get him some daily exercise. I hand walk/trot him every day, but that it the best I can do as he's 10 months old and I won't be lunging him. He was let out in his paddock last night and it did rain. I checked on him this morning and he did not melt! :lol: I just worry because I'm in coastal Texas so we're used to hot, hot, humid weather, so cold and wet is something he's not used to. At the same time, it's not cold enough to blanket! He's getting a visit from the farrier this weekend and we are slowly repairing his feet.

He is currently on 3 lbs of Purina Enrich 32, a pound of alfalfa pellets, and about 13 pounds of coastal hay. I feed the hay in a slow feed bag, and it lasts him a full day so he's technically on "free choice" hay. But he was out in his paddock last night(the only horse let out) and he didn't seem to be any worse for wear. :)
Oh, how I wish we were just getting rain. :wink: Our horses are in as of now because everything is ice! It was 45F the other day, that melted the foot or so of snow we had, now it's freezing and windy, back to negative temps. I'd love for it to just be a bit cold and raining, lol.

Being outside is good for him! I know it's hard with the rain and worrying about the cold, but I agree with others he needs it. He's still young and I'd rather have our youngsters outside unless it's negative temps and an ice skating rink. If it's not cold enough to blanket and just raining I think he'll be fine! If anything bring him in, love him up, groom him, maybe throw a cooler on him to dry him off a bit then turn him out.

I sure hope his little feet get better soon!

Our three little babies this morning. Walker (2), Scout and Gracie both 8 months or so.
 

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#7 ·
Stocking up is usually associated with the lymphatic system and less to do with the circulatory system. From my understanding, blood is always moving but the lymphatic system requires the impact and flexion of movement to "circulate" properly. As loosie said, if the horse can't be turned out for significantly longer, he should be hand walked and encouraged to really stride out (some in hand trotting could also be good).

My mare stocks up if she's been in too long/hasn't been moving around enough. She's about 20 yrs old though so I think in her case it's a little more common. The best thing for her is to be ridden. She'll go into the arena sort of stocked up, and come out perfect.
 
#8 ·
Anna your youngsters are adorable! And I have to say that I am totally jealous of your indoor arena :lol:

That does make a lot of sense, Eolith. I do hand walk/trot him every day both before and after I turn him out for a couple hours. I even hand walk him when he's been turned out all day. I have every day interaction with him on the lead, no matter what I'm doing. I use Keratex hoof hardener on his feet every day to help his soles grow thicker and always work on a little groundwork even if it's just getting him to back up. I really do encourage him to get moving while I'm there.
 
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#11 ·
Good circulation prevents stocking up (my understanding) so the fact that he got DAILY exercise back on stall rest.. prevented or minimized the stocking up. Turning out for 2 hours is helpful but the rest of the 20 hours left in the day he gets no chance of exercise ?

Perhaps you should consider taking him out more.. if you have an indoor arena let him loose with a buddy or just by himself and let him walk around and be active.
 
#12 ·
Turning out for 2 hours is helpful but the rest of the 20 hours left in the day
Sky, it may surprise you to know, there are actually 24 hours in a day!:-p:lol:
 
#14 ·
I am using the Keratex with a recommendation from the farrier. I started him on it 4 weeks ago and am now beginning to use it every other day. I have noticed a difference in his feet already. The Enrich 32, I follow the amount that is told to feed on the bag. I did sign up for FeedXL and checked everything out. While some levels are higher than they should be, they are not at a "dangerous" level. I added the pound of alfalfa pellets while he was on the dex as it can deplete calcium levels.

If there is something out there healthier for him, I would more than gladly switch him over. I was feeding SafeChoice but was told that was not a good feed for youngins. So I was told to try the RB. The only negative thing I've noticed is he's a pig and wolfs down the tiny pellets, choking on them :? But since I've started soaking his feed, he hasn't choked once. Is there any feed you would recommend for him? Everything that I'm feeding/applying has been approved by my vet and farrier.

As for his feet, I wish I had copies of the radiographs. I do have a typed analysis on my computer at home that I can copy here when I get home. Overall, his PA was around -3 degrees on all feet. That is of most concern right now. Both his hoof walls and his soles were thin by a few MMs. I also remember the term "bull nose" or something like that from the laminar stretching out to meet the coffin bone? I'll definitely have to copy and paste the analysis here for more help haha.
 
#16 ·
The Enrich 32, I follow the amount that is told to feed on the bag. I did sign up for FeedXL and checked everything out. While some levels are higher than they should be, they are not at a "dangerous" level. I added the pound of alfalfa pellets while he was on the dex as it can deplete calcium levels.

If there is something out there healthier for him, I would more than gladly switch him over. I was feeding SafeChoice but was told that was not a good feed for youngins. So I was told to try the RB. The only negative thing I've noticed is he's a pig and wolfs down the tiny pellets, choking on them :? ... Everything that I'm feeding/applying has been approved by my vet and farrier.
I always opt for low NSC, high fibre forage type feeds where possible, though with a very low dose 'ration balancer' such as KER for eg, as they only get in the realm of 80g daily, it doesn't matter so much. I don't personally like Purina & others who use 'product'(ie whatever they like that is the cheapest, usually by-products, rather than good & fixed ingredients). Also considering the endemic numbers of insulin resistant & obese horses, I tend to avoid products with molasses. They're the things I don't like about that particular product, but as with everything, it can depend & is also an opinion ;-)

Recommended amounts from manufacturers are typically higher than what is actually needed. That's great that you've been aware of & careful about balancing nutrients. Like I said, it *may* not be right, but if it's been carefully considered, nutrition-wise, it could well be perfect!:wink: I think it's important not to oversupply protein & also what sort of protein you're giving, and also calcium is another one that can be problematic, because it is tied up with Phosphorus, Magnesium & so much else. Current research also suggests that commonly accepted ratios of Ca/Mg may leave Mg sorely lacking, particularly in situations of stress, among other things. That's bodily, metabolic, mental stress, for eg.

Overall, his PA was around -3 degrees on all feet. .... I also remember the term "bull nose" or something
Hmm, yes, vital that you're onto that. Yes, the dorsal wall appearing 'bullnosed' - that is, bulging - is one sign of possible/likely neg. PA. But that's obviously been confirmed with the rads anyway. Using padding to provide support at the back of the foot - under the frog - without putting heel walls under pressure - eg frog support wedges, can be very helpful, especially if thin soles mean there's nowhere else to go.
 
#15 ·
You might cut back on the Purina to about half at this time. If he is stalled most of the time he should be on just hay. Invest in another net and hang it in the opposite corner. A horse drinks 2 or 3 times but the two nets will encourage him to move back and forth. I don't know why they do that but I've seen it many times.
 
#17 ·
I did end up decreasing his feed to 2 pounds of the RB. I'll be looking at the feed store to see if they carry Triple Crown or another good quality ration balancer.

As for his feet, this is the analysis from the radiographs. It's a lot of info!

LEFT FRONT VIEW OF DISTAL PASTERN= PALMER ANGLE - NEGATIVE 3 DEGREES, SOLE DEPTH- 10 MM, HORN/LAMINAR ZONE - 11/11 MM, CORONARY BAND/EXTENSOR PROCESS MEASUREMENT - POSITIVE 2 MM. POOR BONEY ALIGNMENT OF THE BONES OF THE PASTERN, WITH SUBLAXATION OF THE SECOND PASTERN BONE.

CONCERNS - PALMER ANGLE, ANGLE OF THE BOTTOM OF THE COFFIN BONE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GROUND SURFACE IS TOO LOW. THIS CONFORMATION ISSUE WILL CAUSE INCREASE TENSION ON THE DEEP DIGITAL FLEXOR TENDON AS IT TRAVELS OVER THE DISTAL/PALMER SURFACE OF THE NAVICULAR BONE, OF THE COFFIN BONE, AND ITS ATTACHMENTS TO THE HOOF CAPSULE [THE REASON FOR THE BULL NOSE LESION AND THE INCREASED CORTICAL THICKNESS OF THE COFFIN BONE] PUSHES THE COFFIN BONE TOO FORWARD IN THE VASCULAR COMPLEX AND DECREASES PERFUSION TO THE SOLAR CORIUM WHICH RESULTS IN POOR SOLAR DEPTH. SOLE DEPTH, NEED A MINIMUM OF 15 MM FOR ADEQUATE PERFUSION AND PROTECTION OF THE COFFIN BONE, IS TOO THIN. THIS, MOST LIKELY, IS A RESULT OF THE POOR PALMER ANGLE AND POOR ALIGNMENT OF THE BONES OF THE PASTERN.

RIGHT FRONT - LATERAL VIEW OF THE LATERAL PASTERN -PALMER ANGLE NEGATIVE 3 DEGREES, SOLE DEPTH 13MM, HORN/LAMINAR ZONE=15/14 MM
CORONARY BAND/EXTENSOR PROCESS MEASUREMENT - 8 MM. "BULL NOSE" APPEARANCE OF THE DORSAL COFFIN BONE. INCREASED CORTICAL THICKNESS OF COFFIN BONE, POOR BONEY ALIGNMENT OF THE BONES OF THE PASTERN WITH SUBLAXATION OF THE SECOND PASTERN BONE.

LEFT HINDLIMB - LATERAL VIEW OF DISTAL PASTERN - PA=NEGATIVE 1 DEGREE, SOLE DEPTH, 12 MM H/L ZONE - 10/10 MM, CORONARY BAND/EXTENSOR PROCESS MEASUREMENT - O MM. POOR BONEY ALIGNMENT OF THE BONES OF THE PASTERN.

RIGHT HINDLIMB - LATERAL VIEW OF DISTAL PASTERN- PA NEGATIVE 3 DEGREES, SD = 10 MM, H/L ZONE- 10/11 MM, CORONARY BAND/EXTENSOR
PROCESS MEASUREMENT - 4 MM. SMALL OSTEOPHYTE ON DORSO/PROXIMAL P11. INCREASED CORTICAL THICKNESS OF DORSAL COFFIN BONE WITH A "BULL NOSE" LESION. POOR BONEY ALIGNMENT OF THE BONES OF THE PASTERN.
 
#19 ·
Oh I actually read that article when he first started stocking up! :) It's a great read. I'm not particularly concerned about him stocking up. I just wanted to know if his poor feet condition made him more prone to stocking up. I know one's the lymphatic system and the other is the circulatory system now(which makes so much sense. I knew it was fluids pooling up but didn't really think about it) but I don't know if there is some small correlation between the two? What is puzzling me is we went through the same routine of exercise while he was on stall rest. He was actually getting a bit less exercise at that point. The only difference between the two times is the dex and bute. I'm sure the dex played a large part of it because it helped to keep his cranial swelling down. I didn't think it would have that much of an impact, though. It's surprising how many things correlate with each other that you don't really think about.
 
#20 ·
The circulatory system is somewhat separate from the lymph system, but there is a correlation in that some processes in the body make blood vessels leakier than usual. Inflammation is one of them. So with inflammation there will be more fluid for the lymph system to process than usual, and if the muscles are working less to push the fluids back up against gravity, that would make things even worse.

Dexamethasone is a steroid and suppresses the immune system, so decreases the inflammatory response and the leakiness of the blood vessels. Bute also is an anti-inflammatory. It seems that if a horse was stocking up more than usual due to inflammation, either of these medications would cause less fluid to build up.
 
#21 ·
That makes a lot of sense, GT. I know stocking up usually isn't a big deal. I just wanted to know "why now, but not then?" and y'all have definitely answered my question! My vet said pretty much the same thing y'all are now so I know it's nothing to worry about.
 
#22 ·
That makes a lot of sense, GT. I know stocking up usually isn't a big deal.
I agree stocking up may not be a big deal of itself, but it's an indication that things aren't right. I wonder, without naming names, was the 'bad trim' one of those that adhered to specific heel measurements, toe angles, etc??

As far as what you forwarded of the vet report, without knowing where/how they measured, some of it's a bit subjective - ie. while thicker is more ideal, 1cm or more of sole thickness isn't bad at all. But perhaps they measured the distal surface of P3 to the ground surface & there was also extra wall height...
 
#23 ·
The "bad trim" was the first trim he had after his accident. He is usually very good about picking up his feet but I did warn the farrier beforehand of the situation and how I didn't know how he was going to respond. Henny was having none of it that day. He'd pull his hoof away, back up, rush forward, and pivot to get away, then be standing calmly about to fall asleep the next. I know the farrier did the best of his ability and never once got frustrated or angry, but I guess in all that chaos he was trimmed incorrectly. I believe too much angle was put on the hooves, stressing out his tendons.

A bit after that, I noticed him off on his right hind. Knowing that dex has been associated with laminitis, I phoned the vet and we brought him in for a checkup and stopped the dex then and there. The farrier was there for the checkup and after watching his gaits and assessing his feet, they both knew why he was off. So we scheduled the trim for the next weekend and the farrier shortened up his toes and got him standing a lot better in just one session. He's scheduled this weekend for another trim and I can take before and after pictures then. He'll be scheduled to trim every 4 weeks for a while. Which is good anyways, his hooves seem to grow surprisingly quick.

I do remember the vet saying that he measured the HEALTHY hoof wall. Since the laminar was pulling away from the hoof wall, he measured what was healthy and those are the measurements. While some of the measurements may not be critical at this point, my vet showed me what would be present in an ideal hoof which I really appreciate as I know what we need to work towards. I'm not sure when we'll be taking radiographs again. Maybe after the next couple trims to see how we're coming along. He'll be going to the vet next Saturday for acupuncture so they can get a good eye on how he's progressing so far.
 
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