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post #21 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 02:58 PM
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I guess my vet is not as well read as you.... :roll:
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post #22 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 03:53 PM
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I hope your boy gets better!
Romeo had strangles before we bought him and he now has what I think are scars. It is still swollen, but nothing is there. I don't really know how to explain it, but he has the mark.

RIP Minnie, 1981-January 15, 2010
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post #23 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info Ryle. My vet pretty much had the same thing to say concerning the use of antibiotics in my case. The abscess has opened and is draining so the only thing to do at this point is to let it run it's course.

There will be a lot of discussion, as we have already seen, as to the correct quarantine time but space and practicality needs to be considered - also the circumstances on how the horse was acquired.

What surprised me is that I didn't pick up on it and I think it's because I know the horse and he's been on my farm before. Teaches me a lesson.

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post #24 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 05:28 PM
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The Horse | Strangles: Serious, But Not Often Fatal

Unfortunately the consensus statement in full is no longer available online for free. I have a copy from when it was first published.

"
One laboratory-
based study
14 documented that the organism in the form
of a smeared laboratory grown bacterial suspension survived
for 63 days on wood at 2
8C and for 48 days on glass
or wood at 20
8C. This study did not include coinfection
with other normal environmental bacterial flora.
S equi is
Sensitive to bacteriocins from environmental bacteria and
Does not readily survive in the presence of other soil-borne

Flora."

And

"A recovered horse may be a potential source
of infection for at least 6 weeks after its clinical signs of
strangles have resolved."

And

"The carrier state develops in up to 10% of affected animals, resulting in
chronic empyema of the pouches. ...
In some animals, guttural pouch empyema
With
S equi infection may persist asymptomatically for

Many months or even years."

---From the concensus statement

Cindy D.
Licensed Veterinary Technician
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post #25 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind View Post
I guess my vet is not as well read as you.... :roll:

Not surprising at all. Ryle is one of the most educated and informed technicians I have come across in these forums. I would be thrilled to have someone like her on staff when I am practicing in two years. There are plenty of vets out there who do not keep current on literature and sadly there is a whole spectrum of DVMs out there in terms of competency. Yes we all have to pass the boards but it doesn't mean all DVMs are created equal. Instead of rolling your eyes at her, why not see Ryle's well researched info as a chance to learn something?
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post #26 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 10:42 PM
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Very good info Ryle . I am sorry about your horse and hopefully your young'un won't get it Iride. Fortunately all mine have either had it or been exposed to it so hopefully, they have all built up some immunity to it. Poor Koda fought it for a couple of months before it finally started to clear up.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #27 of 36 Old 11-05-2009, 11:18 PM
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Can a horse with regular stangles get basterd strangles, or does the horse with basterd just carry it. Anyone know? That's what would worry me the most about not treating it.
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post #28 of 36 Old 11-06-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tealamutt
Not surprising at all. Ryle is one of the most educated and informed technicians I have come across in these forums. I would be thrilled to have someone like her on staff when I am practicing in two years. There are plenty of vets out there who do not keep current on literature and sadly there is a whole spectrum of DVMs out there in terms of competency. Yes we all have to pass the boards but it doesn't mean all DVMs are created equal. Instead of rolling your eyes at her, why not see Ryle's well researched info as a chance to learn something?
I am more than willing to learn. I read pretty constantly. But honestly, if I am faced with an issue I am going to go with what my vet, that I know and trust, says long before someone on the internet who claims to be a vet tech (not saying Ryle is not a vet tech, saying people on the internet frequently claim to be things they are not). Sorry. I would think once you are practicing you would understand the importance of your clients trusting your opinion and not ignoring it for something they read on the internet.
And for the record, the vet clinic I use does keep very current and is very active in the way of education.

What a timely news letter I just got from the AQHA that says their information is from American Association of Equine Practitioners and it basically says what I understood.

Pieces from the article:

Quote:
It is one of the most commonly diagnosed contagious diseases of horses worldwide. The bacteria can survive on water troughs for more than a month, but the primary source of recurrent infections is most likely asymptomatic carrier horses that can shed the bacteria to other horses for months and years.
Quote:
Though strangles is highly contagious and can affect many horses on a farm, most horses with infection recover without complication. Complications from the infection include spread of the infection to lymph nodes other than the head and neck, immune-mediated disease, muscle disease and pain, and lack of milk production. Horses that develop a complicated infection typically require antibiotics and additional therapies based on veterinary examination.
Treatment
Antibiotic therapy remains controversial for the treatment of strangles. Complicated cases generally require antibiotic and other supportive therapies.
There is some evidence that treatment with antibiotics (such as penicillin) at the first sign of fever and in horses with no lymph node enlargement might prevent infection. However, early antibiotic treatment will also prevent these cases from developing immunity to the infection and subsequently makes them susceptible to reinfection sooner.

Quote:
People and equipment can transfer the infection from horse to horse. Extreme care, hand washing and disinfection of supplies must be observed by everyone involved. If different individuals cannot care for infected and healthy horses, the healthy horses should always be handled first

Quote:

Here are some additional suggestions for reducing your risk:
  • Require a current health certificate for new horse arrivals on the farm.
  • Ask owners of new horses about a history of strangles and consider testing new horses to see if they are shedding the bacteria.
  • If feasible, quarantine new arrivals for two to three weeks and monitor their temperature.
  • All horses should have individual water buckets that are routinely disinfected.
  • When traveling to shows, minimize your horse’s exposure by bringing your own feed, buckets and equipment. Minimize use of shared stalls or pastures at show grounds.
  • If horses are pastured together, group them according to their age and risk level.
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post #29 of 36 Old 11-06-2009, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
but the primary source of recurrent infections is most likely asymptomatic carrier horses that can shed the bacteria to other horses for months and years.
So then the reason that horses get it year after year at a particular barn is not because a horse left the bacteria on walls, water troughs, etc, but that there is a carrier at that barn.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.


It's not always what you say but what they hear.
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post #30 of 36 Old 11-06-2009, 07:12 AM
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I think even Ryle would not disagree with how I understand my vet deals with Strangles. A normally healthy horse not having any issues (not going off feed, dealing with the issue well, etc) is allowed to let the strangles run its course. A horse with complications is dealt with on a case by case basis. No reason to simply dump antibiotics into a horse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iridehorses View Post
So then the reason that horses get it year after year at a particular barn is not because a horse left the bacteria on walls, water troughs, etc, but that there is a carrier at that barn.
Most certainly could be the case.
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