Strangles? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 03-04-2017, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Strangles?

I found a barn to move Fabio to that has more of the stuff I'm looking for, and I gave my thirty days at my current barn today.
The BO then asked me where he was going, I named the new barn, and she said that they had some kind of strangles outbreak a year ago (complete news to me, of course).

She then told me that, if we moved there, she couldn't allow us to come straight back from "a barn like that" if it didn't work out which kind of eliminates my safety net if Fabio hates it there.

Fabio is already compromised due to his muscle issues, and is unvaccinated due to those issues - is strangles a year ago really something to worry about?
I mean, he's gone around the kill pen "block" in the past so I'd assume he's been exposed before...

Ugh, I was already nervous about the idea of moving but this makes it worse! There are major pluses with the new barn for his issues, but I certainly don't want to put him in danger!


ETA - the BO has never come across as a vindictive or catty person, she's only ever seemed to have Fabio's best interests at heart, so I really feel like she was just letting me know something she thought I should know.

Fabio - 13 year old Arabian/Lipizzan gelding

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post #2 of 13 Old 03-04-2017, 09:03 PM
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He can't be vaccinated? That would be worrisome anywhere because you never know what another horse that may be hauled out to a show or trail has been exposed to.

It should be easy enough to find out if that barn really did have a strangles breakout, it's usually in the papers or you could call a local vet which I would do anyway if you are planning to move your horse...
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post #3 of 13 Old 03-04-2017, 09:29 PM
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An informative article to read....
Strangles: Dispelling the Myths | TheHorse.com

Here is another article with similar information and then some...
Breaking the Strangles Cycle | EquiSearch
....
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post #4 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 02:50 AM
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Having had Strangles at my place just last year, brought in by a horse exposed at a sale barn, I'll give you some facts and some thoughts.

#1 Strangles doesn't 'live in the soil' as was once thought.
#2 If horses at the new barn did have strangles and weren't cultured clear (3X is the standard), you could have a carrier/shedder, though not necessarily.

When discussing it with the vet, I was told not to worry about my horses who had gotten it, getting it again for around 5 years. Of course, that's for the strain they got. A new strain could still make someone who is immune compromised sick, though it would likely be to a lesser degree than they were the last time.

The new barn SHOULD have a 30 day quarantine period to protect their current boarders, though in many boarding barns that's observed in the breach more than in practice. As a BO, I would tell you that if Fabio hated the new place and you brought him back, you would have to do a 30 day QT and what I would charge you (it's not cheap because it creates a lot of extra work). And, you would have to do that NO MATTER WHERE YOU TOOK HIM, not just that one barn.

I don't understand why you can't vaccinate him? Has the vet said not to? Because that's one place I absolutely won't compromise and I wouldn't accept a boarder who wouldn't vaccinate. The risk to MY horses is too great to permit it.
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post #5 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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I ended up asking the new barn about it [current BO was like "uh, you can't ask them about it! You think they would tell you?" which made me discount the idea, but then I realized that it's in their best interest to disclose if I ask and why wouldn't they tell me???]. The new BO got right back to me saying that 5 horses ended up with strangles 2 years ago [a horse came in for training and brought strangles - the trainer has since moved on], and every horse was cultured clean before they started to allow horses to leave/enter the property [she described the process of culturing repeatedly].

So I feel a lot better about it. I'm still going to ask around more, but I'm beginning to think that the current BO just doesn't want Fabio to leave. She uses him to help the other turned out horses stay quiet outside [Arab barn - lots of energy] so I think the idea of him leaving makes her not so pleased!
If it came down to it and we needed to go back, he could return to the pasture at my neighbor's house [where he already lived for a few years] and be quarantined there for however long. He wouldn't be thrilled, but there's a llama there who could be his companion, he would be safe, and there aren't any horses around for miles.



On the vaccination front, I feel the same way. I hate that he's not vaccinated. That's one thing about moving barns - the new barn is basically a retirement sort of barn so most of the horses come and stay.
The barn we're currently at is a show barn where people are going to shows and bringing their horses straight back. My biggest worry in particular is that the horse he shares a stall grate with on one side is going to do a lot of showing this summer. After each show is done, he's gonna come back and touch noses with my horse and share anything he might have picked up.
The horse on his other side does a lot of trail riding in the summer - same issue!

The new barn has a lot less traffic and the horses that do go anywhere are in another barn, so I feel like opportunities for disease transmission are lower as well - very reassuring.

As for why he can't be vaccinated [again, I so wish he could be!], vaccines are the one thing that causes him to tie-up nearly immediately. He has been vaccinated in the past so hopefully he still has some residual immunity, but yeah. Just one vaccine and he can't move 2 hours later.
He went down the last time he got a 3-way vaccine and recovered within a day after large, repeated doses of bute but it wasn't pretty and it was very scary! :(

Fabio - 13 year old Arabian/Lipizzan gelding

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post #6 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
I ended up asking the new barn about it [current BO was like "uh, you can't ask them about it! You think they would tell you?" which made me discount the idea, but then I realized that it's in their best interest to disclose if I ask and why wouldn't they tell me???]. The new BO got right back to me saying that 5 horses ended up with strangles 2 years ago [a horse came in for training and brought strangles - the trainer has since moved on], and every horse was cultured clean before they started to allow horses to leave/enter the property [she described the process of culturing repeatedly].

So I feel a lot better about it. I'm still going to ask around more, but I'm beginning to think that the current BO just doesn't want Fabio to leave. She uses him to help the other turned out horses stay quiet outside [Arab barn - lots of energy] so I think the idea of him leaving makes her not so pleased!
If it came down to it and we needed to go back, he could return to the pasture at my neighbor's house [where he already lived for a few years] and be quarantined there for however long. He wouldn't be thrilled, but there's a llama there who could be his companion, he would be safe, and there aren't any horses around for miles.



On the vaccination front, I feel the same way. I hate that he's not vaccinated. That's one thing about moving barns - the new barn is basically a retirement sort of barn so most of the horses come and stay.
The barn we're currently at is a show barn where people are going to shows and bringing their horses straight back. My biggest worry in particular is that the horse he shares a stall grate with on one side is going to do a lot of showing this summer. After each show is done, he's gonna come back and touch noses with my horse and share anything he might have picked up.
The horse on his other side does a lot of trail riding in the summer - same issue!

The new barn has a lot less traffic and the horses that do go anywhere are in another barn, so I feel like opportunities for disease transmission are lower as well - very reassuring.

As for why he can't be vaccinated [again, I so wish he could be!], vaccines are the one thing that causes him to tie-up nearly immediately. He has been vaccinated in the past so hopefully he still has some residual immunity, but yeah. Just one vaccine and he can't move 2 hours later.
He went down the last time he got a 3-way vaccine and recovered within a day after large, repeated doses of bute but it wasn't pretty and it was very scary! :(
I agree with your thought process on the new barn. Just expect Fabio to hate it at first, it's change after all and horses always think change means you're going to murder them. LOL!

Oh and that business about, "You CAN'T ask them about it" is a huge red flag for your current barn, for me. That tells me we're spreading gossip and innuendo and trying to put others in a bad light. That right there would make me pack and go. Glad the new barn got right back to you and told you about their process.

As for the vacs, have you tried him on DMG? A friend of mine had a horse who was very allergic to every adjuvant known to man in the vacs and he would welt up, tie up and generally be miserable. She put him on DMG for 2 months before and after every vaccination each year and he no longer had problems.

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post #7 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 12:28 PM
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the internasel strangles vaccine is very effective, and has minimal, if any side effects, if there is the precaution used, not to give any IM vaccines at the same time, thus possible cross contamination
The internasel strangles vaccine, is an
attenuated live vaccine, thus can cause local abscessing, if accidentally introduced IM Because it creates immunity through the same pathway as the actual disease, it is very effective
I never use the IM flu nor strangles vaccine, because of side effects, often due to the carrier used, and, the immunity induced, is less effective then the internasal. Better immunity is achieved, through an attenuated (weaKENED) live vaccine, then the killed versions, used IM, plus way less side effects.
I recall the IM flu, causing severe neck stiffness, to the point the horses had problems lowering head to eat
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 02:57 PM
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Yes slightly O/T but I was also wondering if he would have the same reaction to a nasal vaccine. From my experience with sensitive horses most are reacting to the shot itself. Not all of course, I've definitely known a few with issues other than that, but can't say I've known one who "can't have" a nasal vaccine.
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post #9 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 03:24 PM
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Not sure if its available in the US but you can blood test for strangles - in the UK its called an ELISA test. It picks out antibodies so might at least tell you if he'd had it in the past
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-05-2017, 04:08 PM
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yes, the ELISA antibody titer is acommon immunological test , to see if a host has immunity to a specific antigen, and could be done, to check if the horse already has achieved natural acquired immunity, hense does not need to be vaccinated

An antibody titer is a measurement of how much antibody an organism has produced that recognizes a particular epitope, expressed as the inverse of the greatest dilution (in a serial dilution) that still gives a positive result. ELISA is a common means of determining antibody titers.
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