Thrush AGAIN - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-20-2011, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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Cool Thrush AGAIN

We have an ongoing problem with Rascal and his hooves. I Finally found a farrier/trimmer I like. The flares, the long toes, the stretched laminae, unshed sole, and even the under run heels on the pancake foot are all improving greatly. His hooves look better than they have in the year I have had him.
Now we have thrush, again! I clean his hooves daily. I mean like with a hoof pick and then dry scrub brush them out. Squeaky clean. I also brush out the separation on his toes.
Is it possible that I am just not curing the thrush? Can it be so deep that 14 days won't get it all? I have done the lysol soaks for 7 days and this last round I continued with the anti-fungal and Antibiotic ointment for 14 days.
It just seems like every 8 to 12 weeks or so it is back to the thrush buster, the creams, ouchy feet and stinky frogs. I don't mind the treatments or stepping them up a notch if needed. I mind him being uncomfortable. AND I really mind him not being healthy all over.
He is in a small dry lot right now. Hay 24/7 fed twice a day on purina senior 1 scoop at each feeding. We are waiting for the vet to determine if he has retained a testicle, so he can't be turned out with the mares and other geldings till that issue is resolved. So He has to be worked daily!
( Sidenote: He has been cleared of any founder/lamintits issues in his PPE and subsequent check ups)

I miss you Rascal. Every day, all day.
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post #2 of 13 Old 07-20-2011, 08:03 AM
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I would think..... if you soak the hoof you make it wet, then you put in an ointment that seals that wetness in.... just seems counter productive to me.

I also think that lots of times when we horse owners think we have thrush we really do not. (Not saying that is the actual case with you.)

Did you ask your new farrier what they suggest for dealing with your thrush?

I personally have had the best luck with Tomorrow/Today. It is a cow mastitis treatment. The long applicator allows you to get the treatment well down into the grooves around the frog.
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post #3 of 13 Old 07-20-2011, 11:20 PM
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We are dealing with wetness, and peeling. I was afraid of thrush. Been using thrush buster and scrubbing it in with a toothbrush.
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post #4 of 13 Old 07-20-2011, 11:27 PM
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A few years ago when my gelding got thrush my farrier recommended putting betidine in a spray bottle and spraying the hooves, hold it up so not all of it drains off, then take a syringe of a 50/50 mixture of athletes foot cream and triple antibiotic ointment and squirt it around the frog and in the crease of the frog so you can get it deep. It worked great for my gelding and I haven't had a problem with thrush since.
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post #5 of 13 Old 07-21-2011, 12:57 AM
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I'll echo AB on the mastitis treatment.

Are you positive it's thrush? The recurring part--unlikely, but no chance of canker, is there?
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post #6 of 13 Old 07-21-2011, 07:59 AM
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When doing all that you are doing, chronic thrush is not the normal, "he got left out in the mud, or the stall wasn't cleaned" issue. It's an immune system issue. I could say how I know that, but I won't

You will probably have to change your game plan starting with the feed

All the starch and sugars that go into a horse's mouth, also go straight to their hooves; along with causing problems in the hindgut.

Regarding the Purina Senior:
The best horse feed: A closer look at what to feed your horse

Where it says in part - even though it is talking about what makes a horse hot, take a look at the high starch value (or non-value:) of Purina Senior:

We’ve all heard that grain can make horses “hot”. It turns out that it is the non-structural carbohydrates (NSC) in grain that does this. Different grains have different amounts of NSC. The highest are corn (60%) and oats (52%). By comparison, here are the NSC content of Purina feed concentrates: Strategy 30%, Senior 20%, Wellsolv 11%, Nature’s Essentials Enriched 32 0%.

If your horse is getting the recommended amount on the bag (or more), the NSC value is off the charts for him.

Before folks come in and say "my horse has eaten senior for years without issue", it isn't "your" horse that has the problems. Every horse is different. I have four. The one that used to have the chronic thrush problems is oat/corn/soy intolerant<---intolerant. It shows in his attitude, it shows in his hooves.

I only found that out by accident after my senior TWH was diagnosed as insulin resistant four years ago and I started feeding everyone his bland diet. What a change for the better that made.

My horses come in at night and even though I clean stalls every day, I have found that grid mats in all the stalls has helped immensely. We re-did the stalls last year with several inches of limestone crush, grid mats (the ones with the holes) next, and shavings that get changed as-needed are kept on top.

Between diet change, good trimming, re-vamping the stalls, I have gone from having my nose in that horse's hooves every day to putting Absorbine Hooflex "Thrush Remedy" in his hooves ONCE every 2 - 3 weeks as a preventative. It's absolutely unbelievable.

This stuff is a hoof miracle worker. It keeps the bad bacteria at bay without compromising the healthy tissue. It does not dry the hoof out.
Hooflex® Thrush Remedy – Hoof Care – Products – Absorbine

This horse also has dust/mold/pollen allergies (does the OP's horse have any indication of those things - just curious

The feed program that works to keep this horse's hooves healthy:

1. Rice bran
2. Omega-3 Horseshine
3. Equi-Pride vit/min supplement with a pre-probiotic in it (soy free)
4. People Vitamin E gel caps
5. Allergy Herbal blend seasonally but that doesn't change his hoof quality
6. Quality, weed-free mixed grass hay.
7. Pasture turn-out daily, all year long

This horse also has a less-than-Grade 1 club hoof that is REALLY prone to thrush, but it has been thrush-free since I took him off oats/corn/soy.

Even though I can't find anything, I am sure Purina Senior has oats and corn in it - 20% NSC value is not safe for a healthy horse.

For all the research that goes into Purina Feeds, something happens between the time R&D finishes its projects and they go to production because Purina doesn't make anything I would feed my horses.

I tried the WellSolve L/S on my older IR horse when it first came on the market. He became "off" enough (lethargic, slow moving) that I knew the other half of the bag was going back to the feed store and I went back to feeding rice bran and an additional vit/min supplement.

IMO, 60% of the hoof success will be in your farrier. I hope when you say you like him, that doesn't mean how he interacts with you but the kind of job he is doing with your horse. He can make or break those hooves. I never have cared how the vet or the farrier talks to me - just make my horse better

40% is what goes into the horse and his living conditions.

To repeat myself, this horse doesn't have the typical thrush that most folks are used to dealing with; when it just won't go away no matter what the owner does, something else needs examined starting with diet, including supplements.

I hope this helps and I am sorry I wrote a book

Last edited by walkinthewalk; 07-21-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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post #7 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry AlwaysBehind, I should have clarified that. Lysol soaks for 7 days FOLLOWED by antibiotic cream and antifungal cream mixed 50/50. That was the new farriers recommendation of the 50/50 mix.
I want him double checked by the vet when he comes for the blood work to check his hormone levels. We found signs of possible rain rot starting, which combined with the thrush suggests something isn't healthy somewhere inside. I have always been taught good hooves come from the inside out, so it stands to reason that the cause of the thrush may be an inside thing. I will ask about the Tomorrow/Today formula next visit, and Thank you and Bubba13 for mentioning it.
Bubba, no, no signs of canker, abscesses, or any foreign objects. His Xrays were clean on anything being wrong with bone structure and density. (I wanted to make sure there wasn't any cavity/bone deterioration from lack of hoof care in his previous home.) Plus the pancake foot worried me for a while, but it is coming along nicely :)
Walkinthewalk, he is on this at the vets recommendation. He coliced and we were advised to put him on the senior for a few months. It's supposed to be gentler on his stomach, easily digestible, loaded with fiber, etc. I am hoping he can go back to Triple Crown soon. He wasn't half as skittish as he is now LOL. (We have him on acidophilus to help counteract some of the potential candida concerns.)
I am forwarding the link to the vet for him to take a look at. Who knows, in August when he is supposed to be able to return to the TC, he might be on something totally different.

I miss you Rascal. Every day, all day.
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post #8 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cakemom View Post
We are dealing with wetness, and peeling. I was afraid of thrush. Been using thrush buster and scrubbing it in with a toothbrush.
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Been there too! And I used a cheapy paint brush with the soft nylon bristles. It went even further into the nooks and crannies than the toothbrush

I miss you Rascal. Every day, all day.
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post #9 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 01:02 AM Thread Starter
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Rachel1786 that I haven't tried on the frog. One "trimmer" had me doing it for the stretched white line and the separation from the flaring. When I got him he had longgggg longggg toes and crappy heels. We are slowly getting things under control after a few false starts with a couple people I wasn't happy with doing his feet.

Never let the beer cans fall out of your truck if you are intending to trim feet for someone. Honestly it didn't endear me to that nice fella at all. ;)

I miss you Rascal. Every day, all day.
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post #10 of 13 Old 07-22-2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rascaholic View Post
Never let the beer cans fall out of your truck if you are intending to trim feet for someone. Honestly it didn't endear me to that nice fella at all. ;)
Oh my goodness, the Big Dummy

He wouldn't have endeared himself to me either

Something else I forgot to mention is ground acidity. My pastures are high in iron, the Ph balance is way off. Our hills are so steep, our local Co-op refuses to come out and spray anything and we can't afford to put 22 acres back into balance anyway.

When the ground is acidic, it becomes a breeding ground for fungus/bacteria and all the heat/humidity we are having perpetuates that. The horses' hooves are walking on that hot ground, the heat is transferring into their hooves and the cracks/crevices around the frog and in the sole absorb all that heat.

If the horse is prone to thrush-like issues to begin with, it's just like a human that's prone to foot fungus walking barefoot around a public swimming area.

That's why the horse's immune system needs to be addressed in order to help alleviate the problem. It won't go away but you can keep it arrested.

I also pump all my horses full of Vitamin E during the hot months. I buy people gel caps. My thrush-prone fella gets 2,400 I.U. daily. My 23+ IR horse is currently getting 12,000 I.U. daily. I will back those amounts way down sometime in the late Fall.

I hope all that ground stuff made sense
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