Ulcer in the eye?! ~Graphic~ - Page 2
 
 

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Ulcer in the eye?! ~Graphic~

This is a discussion on Ulcer in the eye?! ~Graphic~ within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • How can you treat a bad ulcer in a horses eye when you can't get drops in
  • Neomycin and polymyxin b sulfates and bacitracin zinc ophthalmic ointment for horses eye

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    01-19-2013, 11:21 AM
  #11
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
I'm not a vet, but I am an eye doctor. And horse's eyes are fairly similar to a human eye in anatomy.

That is not a cataract. A cataract forms in the crystalline lens, which is on the inside of the eye, directly behind the iris (colored part of the eye). An ulcer or abrasion occurs on the cornea, which is the clear part on the very front of the eye.

A scratch or gouge does not cause an ulcer. It causes a corneal abrasion, but which can progress to become infected if not treated. An ulcer forms from an initial infection or inflammation (not from a scratch or abrasion), or in humans an ulcer can result from over-wearing your contact lenses. So there is a difference in terminology between the two in how they are formed, but treatment for the two usually is similar.

In this case, your filly gave herself a large corneal abrasion (gouge in the eye) and then it did get infected (goopy, green discharge).

Get that vet back out NOW. Keep on pestering them and bothering them if you need to. Your filly is already going to have some vision loss if her eye is THAT cloudy on day 11, but maybe you can still make some improvements.

What exact medications do you still have her on? How many times a day?

If this were a human, I most likely would be giving them some sort of steroid eye drop every couple of hours. A steroid is what clears up the inflammation which is what makes the eye cloudy. I'd also be giving an antibiotic every couple of hours or possibly only 4 times a day, depending on how "infected" the eye still is. For a human, you NEVER give an antiobiotic eye drop less than 4 times a day ,or else you create antibiotic resistance. The steroid, however, you will very very very slowly taper off, as you don't want a rebound effect.

Ointments are great for horses, as it's thicker and sticks around longer that a watery-type drop.
Thank you for clearing that up. My horse had an abrasion not an ulcer, as it was not infected but the vet wanted to keep it that way so gave me antibiotic drops.
     
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    01-19-2013, 12:13 PM
  #12
Yearling
If you think it out is an ulcer get the vet out NOW. My stallion got quite a nasty one, he lost his sight completely in that eye for over a month and has a clear scar on that eye. If she has an ulcer and it is left untreated she could loose her eye, seriously the vet told me when we first started treating Ricky's eye that he wasn't sure is we could save he sight/eye.
Eye ulcer help please


This is what happened to his eye to begin with

The swelling on his eye, plus how runny the eye was because of the ulcer

Bad stitching by the vet rubbed on the eye and cursed the ulcer.
This is the scar left


Really hope she gets checked out by the vet soon and that she doesn't have an ulcer, they are horrible things and took us 2 months to get my stallion better because he got to the point putting eye drops in was impossible, he was on pain killers and antibiotics most of the time.
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    01-21-2013, 09:33 AM
  #13
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
I'm not a vet, but I am an eye doctor. And horse's eyes are fairly similar to a human eye in anatomy.

That is not a cataract. A cataract forms in the crystalline lens, which is on the inside of the eye, directly behind the iris (colored part of the eye). An ulcer or abrasion occurs on the cornea, which is the clear part on the very front of the eye.

A scratch or gouge does not cause an ulcer. It causes a corneal abrasion, but which can progress to become infected if not treated. An ulcer forms from an initial infection or inflammation (not from a scratch or abrasion), or in humans an ulcer can result from over-wearing your contact lenses. So there is a difference in terminology between the two in how they are formed, but treatment for the two usually is similar.

In this case, your filly gave herself a large corneal abrasion (gouge in the eye) and then it did get infected (goopy, green discharge).

Get that vet back out NOW. Keep on pestering them and bothering them if you need to. Your filly is already going to have some vision loss if her eye is THAT cloudy on day 11, but maybe you can still make some improvements.

What exact medications do you still have her on? How many times a day?

If this were a human, I most likely would be giving them some sort of steroid eye drop every couple of hours. A steroid is what clears up the inflammation which is what makes the eye cloudy. I'd also be giving an antibiotic every couple of hours or possibly only 4 times a day, depending on how "infected" the eye still is. For a human, you NEVER give an antiobiotic eye drop less than 4 times a day ,or else you create antibiotic resistance. The steroid, however, you will very very very slowly taper off, as you don't want a rebound effect.

Ointments are great for horses, as it's thicker and sticks around longer that a watery-type drop.
We have been calling and pestering them for the past week, the one said she shouldn't of even come out to check on her. I was like WHAT!!! Seriously. I think i'm going to change vets now, i'm over it.
She's on Atropine Sulfate Ophthalmic solution USP, and Neomycin (as needed) and Polymyxin B Sulfates and Bacitracin Zinc Ophthalmic ointment USP (3X day)
She's getting harder and harder to handle anymore. I can usually get the ointment in no problem, but the drops is another story....
I need to get more ointment too.
     
    01-21-2013, 09:43 AM
  #14
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Bowers    
We have been calling and pestering them for the past week, the one said she shouldn't of even come out to check on her. I was like WHAT!!! Seriously. I think i'm going to change vets now, i'm over it.
She's on Atropine Sulfate Ophthalmic solution USP, and Neomycin (as needed) and Polymyxin B Sulfates and Bacitracin Zinc Ophthalmic ointment USP (3X day)
She's getting harder and harder to handle anymore. I can usually get the ointment in no problem, but the drops is another story....
I need to get more ointment too.
You definitely need to find a new vet. I can't even imagine a vet not being concerned about this eye.

I wish you could get the tube thing in her eye, I think they call it a lavage?
It makes all the difference in the world. Horses don't care when you do the meds, you know the meds are in the eye, no muss, no fuss.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. Sounds like a nightmare.
     
    01-21-2013, 09:57 AM
  #15
Yearling
Yeah Acorn, its getting there. And it doesn't help she keeps trying to escape out of the barn, so i'm at a loss on what to do any more. I just want to rip my hair out. It couldn't of happened at a worse time. I'll be calling a family friend (whom is a vet, and treats my mom's horses and my paps cattle) and having them come and check things out. So frustrated....
     
    01-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #16
Yearling
Our vets were the same at first for about a vet, it is just an infection here is some antibiotics ect ect, they finely came out and check his eye and we can't change vet as there is only one vet practice on the island.
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    01-21-2013, 10:12 AM
  #17
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Bowers    
Yeah Acorn, its getting there. And it doesn't help she keeps trying to escape out of the barn, so i'm at a loss on what to do any more. I just want to rip my hair out. It couldn't of happened at a worse time. I'll be calling a family friend (whom is a vet, and treats my mom's horses and my paps cattle) and having them come and check things out. So frustrated....
Hopefully this vet will be more helpful.

Remind your sister-in-law that she owes you BIG TIME.

In my mares case they had to debride the eye as it was what they called a non healing ulcer which means the eye was laying down tissue over the ulcer and the meds weren't able to get to the ulcer. Fortunately they only had to do it once.

I'll say a little prayer that this new vet can "fix" the problem.
Please keep us updated.
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    01-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #18
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Bowers    
We have been calling and pestering them for the past week, the one said she shouldn't of even come out to check on her. I was like WHAT!!! Seriously. I think i'm going to change vets now, i'm over it.
She's on Atropine Sulfate Ophthalmic solution USP, and Neomycin (as needed) and Polymyxin B Sulfates and Bacitracin Zinc Ophthalmic ointment USP (3X day)
She's getting harder and harder to handle anymore. I can usually get the ointment in no problem, but the drops is another story....
I need to get more ointment too.
Oh my. I'd get a new vet yesterday.

That's so frustrating. I know that eyes are not a vet's specialty, but once damage is done, damage is done. Scarring is irreversible. And vision is such a precious gift, whether you are a human or an animal. I just really think that a lot of vet's don't realize that and/or just aren't comfortable with eyes because it is such a specialty. Heck, I know several ER doctors ... the human kind haha .... that would rather have a gunshot victim come through those doors than a red eye ..... It's just not their forte and they know it.

So.... atropine???? Umm, that's the opposite of what I would want in a human. Atropine makes the pupil smaller. Normally, when you have an inflammatory reaction in the eye (like your horse is having) you want to make the pupil larger. The purpose of this is to ease pain (Atropine and small pupils actually CAUSE headaches and more pain) by keeping the muscles still, that control pupil size. And the other purpose of making the pupil larger (also called dilation) is to keep the pupil from "sticking" to the lens of the eye, which sits right behind the iris. If the pupil sticks to the lens, you have a synechiae, and lots more inflammation to just confounds the issue. So I'm really confused why they gave you atropine for her.

The other 3 you listed are all anti-biotics. As all anti-biotics, you want to try to use that 4 times a day, and no less (or else you create antibiotic resistance).

I don't blame her for being a bugger about getting eye drops in. (Most humans hate it too.) If you can at least keep the eye gooped up with the antibiotic ointment, at least that is something. Each of those anti-biotics act on a different type of bacteria, so you get the most coverage by using different ones.

I know it is not pleasant .... but have you tried lip chaining her or twitching her to get them in? I know its a last resort force method, but something when you are trying to treat a horse, sometimes it has to be done.

I wish your horse was on some sort of steroid as well. That's what calms down the inflammation and helps keep the scarring to a minimum.
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    01-24-2013, 04:57 PM
  #19
Yearling
They way they explained the drops was it's supposed to dilate the pupil, so that it healed faster and got more blood flow, she got the drops once a day or as needed.
The ointment I was told had steroids in it to ease the pain and inflammation. She also was on banamine paste for 5 days.
We twitched her for the first 4 days until she got used to the situation, and I usually just stick my fingers in her nose and she holds her head still now.
So now sitting here thinking about it, me putting the drops in and the ointment, obviously caused conflicting processes, which explains why she was so temperamental about it when I would do more later. O_O Ooops, I had no idea, and the vets obviously didn't explain anything very well. go figure, now I feel really bad.
As of the moment her owners haven't contacted another vet, i've given them the numbers, and I keep pestering them to get it done now. But I can only do so much for her. It's really frustrating on my end, believe me. (i was going to call for them, but they insisted otherwise so I handed over all of my vet contacts....big mistake)
As of right now her eye has cleared up a lot since the last pic, if she'll let me i'll try to get one in the morning. I can bet there will be a scar, it's already noticeable, and I think she'll be partially blind too, she's oh so touchy and spooky on that side now. I'm doing my best everyone I really am....
     
    01-24-2013, 05:19 PM
  #20
Super Moderator
These things can be really hit and miss as far as results go. I had a gelding that scratched his eye badly, it ulcerated but cleared up completely with treatment.
My old mare on the other hand came in from the field when she was 8 with a small thorn stuck in her eye, she got immediate treatment, it also ulcerated and her eye was blue/cloudy like the one you show. It didnt respond to treatment but I decided to not have the eye removed unless it actually went diseased. She is now 22 and though the cloudiness receded about half way its never got better - or worse.
I rode her the same as any other horse, she has partial sight in it and slightly tilts her head to the one side but other than that - no problems.
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