What can you tell me about "buting" long term? - Page 2

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What can you tell me about "buting" long term?

This is a discussion on What can you tell me about "buting" long term? within the Horse Health forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category
  • Can you put bute in horses anus
  • How long can a horse stay on a low dose of bute

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    03-15-2012, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Joe4d    
this is your horse, not the ranch owners horse, get your own vet, stop being a pushover stand up for your self and your horse.
You dotn have to get stupid about it, just say thanks but no thanks. Or just smile and knod and simply ignore them.
You knew that horse wasnt ready to be rode, but you did it anyway. That's ur fault for lettign someone tell you to do something you knew was wrong.
You know the answer to your own question. The horse doesnt sound like it needs drugs it sounds like it needs time to heal.
Well Joe4d, I can't say that you are wrong about any of that!
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    03-17-2012, 10:36 AM
When I was in my senior year of vet school, one of the professors was doing a study on the safety of bute. Some old, lame, foundered, arthritic ponies that needed to be put out of their misery were the test subjects. The ponies were put on bute at the label recommended dosage for a month. At the end of the month, the poor ponies were humanely euthanized and autopsies were done. All of the ponies had ulcers throughout their entire digestive tracts. They had hundreds of ulcers going through their mouth, esophagus, stomach, intestines, rectum and all the way to the anus. (The control ponies -- the ones that did not get bute-- had no ulcers.) Giving bute long term is risky at best.
    03-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Interesting study, Celeste, I would love to see that.

I know the relationship between long term bute use and ulcers is well established, however, there are individual levels of tolerance, much like the same connection between NSAIDS and increased gastrointestinal bleeding in humans - some people tolerate much better than others.

I did keep an old arthritic pony on a low dose of bute for a couple of months to keep him pasture sound before he was finally euthed. I, of course, did not do a necropsy to see if he had developed ulcers, so that's not definitive, but I've also know more sensitive horses to show signs of distress, ie, going off their feed, after a week of bute.

I think 2 grams of bute/day for 2 weeks is *lot* and far more than what's indicated by the injury you've described. I'd be more inclined to cold hose and ice the knee and stop the bute at 3 - 5 days.

Just my .02. I think other posters have covered your boarding arrangement pretty well.
    03-17-2012, 12:08 PM
Isn't this stuff common knowledge for anyone that has been seriously involved with horses? Since posting this, I have done a lot of research and talked to many people. The general consensus was 1 week tops should do it. There is no need to continue it further and if he shows signs of still being in pain, then something is definitely up that needs vet care.
He was sound as could be yesterday. It was obviously just over exertion combined with the knee injury. It's just very strange to me that someone who has been a horse owner for 45 years, would not be very aware of these dangers. It's very frustrating to be in this position, but we will be resolving it today.
    03-17-2012, 12:26 PM
Maura, As a student, I wasn't on the credited on the publication and it was quite a while ago. I have long since lost touch with the researcher. All I can tell you is that the study was done in 1982/1983 at the University of Georgia College of Veterinary Medicine. Since I was one of the students that personally did the "dirty work" of opening the intestines of these animals, it is something that I have never forgotten.
    03-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Pain management is important. Three weeks is a very long time if he no longer needed it after week one. If he actually needed it past week one, I would think he would have also needed other medical attention. If it is a daily dose that is appropriate for his weight and is broken into two administrations, that makes sense. It is chronic use that is of concern w bute over extended periods of time - but I have never seen what the period is, exactly. It is effective as a pain killer, so for short periods of time, it is the "go to".

My sister had a retired stud. As he got older, he had got more severe DJ, so as a quality of life issue in light of his then age (27), he was started on bute daily. He had very happy and healthy twighlight years, and died at 34.

I would not ever give any horse bute for more than a week unless I knew exactly why I was doing that (i.e., I had a clear vet report of the injury, etc.,.) with some direction (e.g., it will take at least a 2 weeks for the condition to improve, in which it is important to keep the pain in check).
    03-17-2012, 09:03 PM
Thanks Missy May. Most people who have given their horses bute on low dose for an extended time, seem to be administering to older horses. This guy is just turning 9. It's just so strange that she would even suggest going for so long based on the knowledge that she had of our ride.

I tried contacting her to make sure that he's no longer getting it, but I have yet to have the inquiry returned. Hopefully, we can get this squared away. I appreciate all the advice that everyone has given.
    03-18-2012, 11:16 AM
If your horse is no longer lame, there really is no reason to use Bute. Consider rubbing him down with linament after exercise instead. So long as he stays sound on the leg I don't think bute is needed. There is no benefit to giving bute to a horse that is not displaying any signs of discomfort. Tell the previous owner you want to keep your horse off the bute unless there are obvious signs of discomfort. Best of luck.
    03-18-2012, 02:15 PM
Green Broke
I would be concerned that if the barn owner is telling you to bute the horse for an extended period of time like that he has something to hide. I hate to say it, but it sounds like he knowingly sold you a horse with long-term lameness issues.

I can't imagine any reason that a swollen knee that has gone down and the horse is sound would require 2-3 weeks worth of bute.

I personally only have used bute here and there if the horse is obviously lame and only for a few days at a time.
    03-18-2012, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I would be concerned that if the barn owner is telling you to bute the horse for an extended period of time like that he has something to hide. I hate to say it, but it sounds like he knowingly sold you a horse with long-term lameness issues.

I can't imagine any reason that a swollen knee that has gone down and the horse is sound would require 2-3 weeks worth of bute.

I personally only have used bute here and there if the horse is obviously lame and only for a few days at a time.
I'm now worried that the horse has been given a low dose of bute this whole time. Words cannot begin to explain how I feel about all this. Many things have come to light since I originally posted this. I don't know how to get myself out of this mess, but I'm sure there will be a way.

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