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What number on the body condition score card?

7K views 67 replies 11 participants last post by  nyg052003 
#1 · (Edited)
What would you guys say is a good number/rating for a pleasure riding/pasture horse?

both my horses get fed very well and are in a pasture all the time. I can still slightly see a few ribs, mayb the first 3 ribs from near the front leg but looking at them even from a distance they look nice and fat.

with the paint, i can only see them on the other side from the picture where he is mostly white
 

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#3 ·
They both look good to me,don't think they need to be any fatter. Even if you can see some ribs i don' think its a big deal.

They are very nice looking horses,not sure what score they'd be but they look great.:wink:
 
#6 · (Edited)
actually tried feeling but to be honest hard for me to relate what I feel to the scorecard :)

actually re reading the score card now that i think about it, its a little easier now and from what all I have felt I would say my horses are between 5-6. I guess just seeing the outline of the ribs some people just dont like to see but then again if you dont see them, the horses may be slightly overweight maybe ; not sure
 
#7 ·
I would like to see a picture of both looking at their tail and forward toward their ears...head up. And looking straight on from the front at the ear toward the tail...

If you see a flat flank, rounded top to the butt and covered tail head you are usually good.
If you see the opposite you are either to lean or to fat...depending upon what you see.

Both your horses are very pretty...sleek and shiny.

I do think though both could use some more weight on their frame.
Your paint has a rather fast sloping down rump where fat would be deposited and more round and the hip girdle area is rather prominent. I can't tell if his hip is "sticking out" much...his flank being concave {inward} not convex {rounded outward}.
Both horses have muscling on shoulder and hindquarters....

Your other horse looks about the same to me...needing some weight.
Again the point of that hip is more prominent than I think it should be.
Butt has a drop off that just lacks the soft rounding of fat deposited.
His flank also looks to be sunk-in some.

I prefer my horses with a little more "roundness" to their frame.
Hip more padded, flank flat to the eye when looking from the butt forward.
Spine at the pelvic girdle to be a little more covered.

I would not want to see much more weight though....there is a fine line between "just right" and "to much of just right".....

Every one likes a slightly different look and appearance on their horse. A 5 or 6....not to me.
Without actually seeing them "live" it is hard to give good feedback.
If the camera does to animals what it does to humans....:?

jmo...
 
#8 ·
I would like to see a picture of both looking at their tail and forward toward their ears...head up. And looking straight on from the front at the ear toward the tail...

If you see a flat flank, rounded top to the butt and covered tail head you are usually good.
If you see the opposite you are either to lean or to fat...depending upon what you see.

Both your horses are very pretty...sleek and shiny.

I do think though both could use some more weight on their frame.
Your paint has a rather fast sloping down rump where fat would be deposited and more round and the hip girdle area is rather prominent. I can't tell if his hip is "sticking out" much...his flank being concave {inward} not convex {rounded outward}.
Both horses have muscling on shoulder and hindquarters....

Your other horse looks about the same to me...needing some weight.
Again the point of that hip is more prominent than I think it should be.
Butt has a drop off that just lacks the soft rounding of fat deposited.
His flank also looks to be sunk-in some.

I prefer my horses with a little more "roundness" to their frame.
Hip more padded, flank flat to the eye when looking from the butt forward.
Spine at the pelvic girdle to be a little more covered.

I would not want to see much more weight though....there is a fine line between "just right" and "to much of just right".....

Every one likes a slightly different look and appearance on their horse. A 5 or 6....not to me.
Without actually seeing them "live" it is hard to give good feedback.
If the camera does to animals what it does to humans....:?

jmo...
thanks for the insight , i will try to get more pics.
yep cameras surely mess us up sometimes ;)
 
#13 ·
I would not say 5 or 6. At all.

I think they look good. 4.5-5??

Definitely at a good weight though wherever you'd "score them". They're what I'd call a "healthy lean" (from those pics at least).

The Henneke Body Condition Scoring System | Habitat For Horses
i don't get to ride all that much so yes I agree they could use a little more overall weight.

I give them 6 qts of grain, 3 sweet feed and 3 oats total per day year round and hay. In Summer they graze 24/7, actually they are in the pasture 24/7 year round. I guess more hay in the summer will get them more overall weight
 
#12 ·
The paint is a little more lean than I like unless in steady work (which means riding 6 days a week at least 2 hours a day). When looking at the rear you see the hint of "poor" or "poverty" lines from the tail head along the back of the buttock to the gaskin.

I would like to see those filled in a little more.
 

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#14 ·
The paint is a little more lean than I like unless in steady work (which means riding 6 days a week at least 2 hours a day). When looking at the rear you see the hint of "poor" or "poverty" lines from the tail head along the back of the buttock to the gaskin.

I would like to see those filled in a little more.
yeah the paint is taller , more tall and kind of linky type but has decent weight. I will increase the hay

what would fill that outlined area in that you highlighted?

riding more would help also?
 
#16 ·
Yes, they are fine where they are but you wouldn't want them any thinner. Personally if they aren't being worked I would like them just a tad heavier (a tad). Better than too heavy though, which is so common.

Yes more hay. They should basically have free choice. Idk how much they are getting now. I'm a little concerned that they are getting that much feed and don't look it at all. That's a lot for a horse in little work. Their weight is acceptable but with that amount of food I'd expect them to be much (too) heavier.

Ditch the sweet feed and find something better. Personally I would ditch the oats too. Are they UTD on worming?

If my horses were getting that much they'd be fat AND bouncing off the walls. We feed a pretty basic grain and they get maybe 4 qts a day, usually less (we have a range of sizes and some health/weight issues).
 
#17 ·
Yes, they are fine where they are but you wouldn't want them any thinner. Personally if they aren't being worked I would like them just a tad heavier (a tad). Better than too heavy though, which is so common.

Yes more hay. They should basically have free choice. Idk how much they are getting now. I'm a little concerned that they are getting that much feed and don't look it at all. That's a lot for a horse in little work. Their weight is acceptable but with that amount of food I'd expect them to be much (too) heavier.

Ditch the sweet feed and find something better. Personally I would ditch the oats too. Are they UTD on worming?

If my horses were getting that much they'd be fat AND bouncing off the walls. We feed a pretty basic grain and they get maybe 4 qts a day, usually less (we have a range of sizes and some health/weight issues).
Yes I wormed them about a month ago. What's the best way to keep up/know when to worm them?

If your horse got the 4 qts of grain but less hay, would they be as big?

What would you recommend aside from oats/sweet feed? I always heard oats were the best thing you can give a horse.
 
#18 ·
Do a fecal, even if they are UTD they can still have some.

Check with your vet for a schedule. It will depend on your area, worms, resistances, etc.

We worm with ivermectin every 8 weeks and double dose strongid 2x/year. Works for us. May not work for everyone. Some people just check fecals regularly and rarely need to worm.

The primary weight builder is forage, aka hay. My Arab who is becoming less of an easy keeper as he ages is currently getting 1 3/4 qt basic grain and 2 flakes 2x/day plus what's left of the pasture all day. My taller and heavier MFT with health and now weight issues is getting 2 1/2 qts of his special grain and 3 flakes.

If it worked out to feed them more hay/forage we could feed less grain, but this is what works for us atm. So yes, the hay is for weight, feed them less hay and less overall they WILL lose weight. (Plus it's far more healthy to feed more hay less grain).

What brands do you have available at your local feed store?

Look up on here and check this out: Feeding Oats to Horses – The Whole Picture | The Feed Room (skimmed it but seems informative)

Oats seem to be more of a thing of the past (yes they did used to be a big thing, so did lots of other things) and I won't ever use them. Since I haven't used them I don't know all the details but I'm sure someone else can explain it better but the main reasons outlined in that article are enough for me!

Definitely get rid of the sweet feed though. It's not nutritious or healthy.
 
#19 ·
Do a fecal, even if they are UTD they can still have some.

Check with your vet for a schedule. It will depend on your area, worms, resistances, etc.

We worm with ivermectin every 8 weeks and double dose strongid 2x/year. Works for us. May not work for everyone. Some people just check fecals regularly and rarely need to worm.

The primary weight builder is forage, aka hay. My Arab who is becoming less of an easy keeper as he ages is currently getting 1 3/4 qt basic grain and 2 flakes 2x/day plus what's left of the pasture all day. My taller and heavier MFT with health and now weight issues is getting 2 1/2 qts of his special grain and 3 flakes.

If it worked out to feed them more hay/forage we could feed less grain, but this is what works for us atm. So yes, the hay is for weight, feed them less hay and less overall they WILL lose weight. (Plus it's far more healthy to feed more hay less grain).

What brands do you have available at your local feed store?

Look up on here and check this out: Feeding Oats to Horses – The Whole Picture | The Feed Room (skimmed it but seems informative)

Oats seem to be more of a thing of the past (yes they did used to be a big thing, so did lots of other things) and I won't ever use them. Since I haven't used them I don't know all the details but I'm sure someone else can explain it better but the main reasons outlined in that article are enough for me!

Definitely get rid of the sweet feed though. It's not nutritious or healthy.
southern states sweet feed mix and oats I get from a farmer

it should be very visible to see worms in the waste?
 
#21 ·
I've always heard a lot of horse owners around and folks that have a lot of horses and that have horses for years that oats and sweet feed is what they feed. I havent gotten a chance to read the article about the oats yet by the way. So yes I get the oats local from my neighbor and the sweet feed ( southern states ) is what I get from the feed store. The horses graze 24/7 and also get hay
 
#22 ·
If you are feeding Southern States brand, does your feed dealer have "Triple 10 Textured Horse Feed" sold in 50 pound bags????
http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-4871-southern-states-triple-10-textured-horse-feed-50lb.aspx

Southern States web site I hope was having difficulties today as it was very slow and much information seemed to be missing.

Their Multi Stock 12% Sweet Feed Mix is that what you are feeding?
I was really unhappy when it claims it has a higher fat and fiber but will put nothing in print...tells me something.
The fact it is not horse specific food also would be telling me it is missing some key ingredients that could be making a difference in what you obtain in looks on your horse.
Even their All Grain Textured leaves me with, "No, not feeding this either."

It isn't so much protein you need, but a higher fat content and a higher fiber content. Most horses {not competition horses} do very well on a lower protein feed but with increased fat & fiber in the food.

Increased forage first.
Then do a feed with something like that Textured 10.
You need to feed cool calories of higher fat, not just protein for a weight gain. Hay first, then a higher fat content of concentrate {grain/feed} and higher fiber usually goes with the fat number....

Good luck.
 
#25 ·
I would NOT feed that. Even for my easy pasture puffs. No way.

The fact that it's not even horse specific right there is a huge NO for me.

As someone who has owned horses, goats and sheep, I can tell you they do NOT have the same feed needs. The latter are ruminants... why would they eat the same things? I wouldn't feed my sheep or goats that either. Well maybe the goats as they seemed pretty invincible to food LOL!

Get something made for horses. Definitely. Stay away from sweet feed. Just because other people do it doesn't mean it's best and I feel pretty confident that if you get a better quality feed you will feed less AND have fatter/shinier/healthier horses.

Not very thrilled with the website, but if you are stuck on that brand they have other, HORSE, options available. I see there is Triple Crown available. If you have that available locally definitely take a look. That is a well-known quality brand. Not familiar with any of the others but they don't impress me at a glance.

Agree with horselovinguy's post.
 
#27 ·
ok
Ok, appreciate all of you guys comments. I am going to call around tommorow and ask what else horse specefic brands they have and compare pricing and get back to you guys.

here are some feed images as well as some fresh pics from this morning after moving them to another pasture.
 

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#26 ·
I agree with Elana, the Paint is a little thin for my liking.

I don't look at the muscle circled however. That just looks like a muscle to me. I can tell by the triangle shape from hip/tailhead/hip that you can just barely make out in the photos posted. He is thin. The other horse looks about perfect, but I can see slight hollows in the hips which leads me to believe that if this were my horse, I would like to see a little weight (not much) on that one too.
 
#28 ·
Now that I've had a look at the hind quarters, I'd say the chestnut looks great and the paint needs weight. Look at the roundness of the chestnut's rump and how the bone is prominent on the paint. It's very easy to have one horse that's an easy keeper and another that is a hard keeper.
I have two horses of fairly equal age, size and activity level, one gets twice as much feed as the other. The horse that gets the least is heavier.
 
#29 ·
You definitely need a better quality feed for the horses if you need to feed that after increasing their forage {hay} and they still have not put weight on.

After looking at the newest pictures....both horses DO need weight added..

Both are thinner than what you truly want.
Your paint horse has quite a bit of his spinal column and pelvic girdle and hips sticking out. I would score him between a 4 and 4.5...close to a 4.
Your other guy is not as thin but still not fully fleshed out where he should be. I would score him a 4.5 but not a 5....

I bet if you put a better quality feed into them they will pick up easily...they look healthy otherwise with beautiful shiny coats.

I would expect to pay near double the price you mentioned you are currently paying...you did say $9 - $10 a bag for feed....
Horse feed averages from about $15 up to close to $35 a bag for quality ingredients and food from manufacturers.
Tractor Supply Stores have a decent choice of feeds from several manufacturers and nice pricing if they are available by you.
Do check with your SS store/dealer. In future make sure what you purchase is specific for horse consumption...it does make a difference.
You may actually feed less and get better results so a win-win situation for the horses and you and no more expensive....
If you make changes, do them slowly over a week to ten days so no digestive upset is hopefully going to happen.

Good luck.

 
#31 ·
kskatt...
Have to disagree that the Chestnut horse is great weight....
When you look very closely at all the newest pictures visible..
I see sunk (concave} flanks, shoulder points, beginning of a tailhead, sloped off hindquarter where it should be filled in and rounded with flesh...That pelvic girdle is more noticable in some pictures than others...hip sticking out more than it should.

He has flesh on his frame, he is just not rounded as much as he should be and needs to be. He has muscle..he just has to many dips and valleys to my liking.

A fix in the making...and that is a conscientious owner doing right for the animals.

jmo...
 
#32 ·
Exactly when were the first set of and the second set of pics taken?
I would absolutely like to see more condition, that helps with rounding a few things out.
horselovinguy, you like them at a 6 and I'm more on a low 5 side. I see lots of horses that are over weight. I have rescued and brought horses up from between a 1 and a 2 to a 5. I have had horses that were 33 and 36 when they died. Being on the lean side is the healthiest thing any animal can be; dogs, horses, people, etc. Less work on the heart for one and helps tons with arthritis.:D
 
#34 ·
I skimmed back through and am surprised we're spending so much time on the grain and practically nothing on the hay.
Is that pretty much what your pasture looks like all the time. How many acres is it? What kind of hay do you feed and how much?
Normally, when talking about weight, hay is number one. The majority of, non performance/working, horses don't even need grain. Not including specials like pregnant mares, youngsters and seniors.
I'm surprised no one has been talking about the sugars in sweet feed and how that can be a problem.
Before going crazy upping the grain, let's talk grass and hay.:D
 
#35 ·
I skimmed back through and am surprised we're spending so much time on the grain and practically nothing on the hay.
Is that pretty much what your pasture looks like all the time. How many acres is it? What kind of hay do you feed and how much?
Normally, when talking about weight, hay is number one. The majority of, non performance/working, horses don't even need grain. Not including specials like pregnant mares, youngsters and seniors.
I'm surprised no one has been talking about the sugars in sweet feed and how that can be a problem.
Before going crazy upping the grain, let's talk grass and hay.:D[/QUO:-|TE]
folks did talk about the sweet feed and the sugars in it :)

the grass is dying now and they have about a total of an acre and a half almost 2, maybe 2 1/2 just guesstimating. The pics I have posted is from pretty recent where the grass for the most part is turning brown now. I also have another area also so that would take it further to a total of about almost 3 acres
 
#36 ·
That fat content is pretty close to nothing.

One of my grains- protein 14, fat 7, fiber 15. While this can vary slightly most basic horse feeds are pretty close. Look for something similar.

I won't even bother commenting on the rest because pretty much everything on that label, esp fat (and multi animal), screams WRONG to me. There's pretty much no point in feeding that.

Thanks for the new pics. There they look healthier (nice shine) but it does show their weight more clearly. Now I would say they do need weight. The pinto moreso and the other very slightly but mostly good (I wouldn't worry here, good as it but do change feed for both and adjust as needed).

The pinto does need weight and I would be focusing on weight gain here.

Do note- while his hips are bony and the most noticeable "skinny horse!" signal one of my own horses has the conformation where even in good weight he is bony in a few spots over his hips. So DO pay attention to his weight but some things are ok in some horses (use the chart to break it down and arrive at your middle ground!)

Use the links given and try to get them both to 4.5-5. No more. Something like 5.5 is perfectly acceptable but not preferable. The pinto does need a little more TLC in that regard.

I did suggest the OP change the sweet feed, that's what started this.

OP was also suggested free choice quality hay in addition to the pasture. This is a starting point, but I would definitely be changing, even if not upping at this point, the feed either way.

If these were my horses I would change the feed and take it from there. Maybe up it maybe decrease it as needed. If I needed to up it for both I would change the hay and see what happened first.
 
#37 ·
when u say free choice do you mean let them eat as much hay daily as they want or is that a specific hay?

i noticed when i had it to where they can eat as they want, they just wanted to eat hay and there was plenty of grass lol. I would be buying hay very very very often and if my horses look as good as they look without letting them eat the heck out of all the hay, I am just going to keep giving them hay daily as I am but increase the amount.
 
#38 ·
Free choice means they have access to hay 24/7.

If they want to eat hay over grass that's fine. Grass probably isn't any good if that's the case unfortunately.

If you don't increasing the amount is good. Make sure they're getting ~2% of their body weight/day of nice hay. Spread out as much as possible.
 
#39 ·
Free choice hay basically means that you put hay out and they have access to it 24/7/365. Whether they have grass sometimes doesn't matter as regular yard grass may not have the nutrition that they need. Plus, even though your pasture looks green, there really isn't much there for them to eat and sustain on.

This is what I would do if it were my horses. Step 1, ditch the sweet feed or any sort of processed feed (some are better than others, but I still don't like feeding any sort of molasses to my horses and most processed feeds have it). If they need a "hard" feed, go with something like hay pellets. I can get a 50# bag of alfalfa pellets at my feed store for about $12 and 8-10 pounds of that a day is a great addition to their hay for harder keepers.

Step 2, have your vet run a fecal if you haven't already to see if there is any sort of worm load there at all. As others have mentioned, there are many worms that are immune to some of the more commonly used wormers.

Step 3, have their teeth checked if you haven't already.

While the dun horse is much better than the paint, he's still a bit on the thin side IMHO. Not so much that he needs more fat, but he's lacking in muscle, specifically along his topline. The paint, I'm sorry to say, is in what I would consider pretty poor condition. Severely lacking muscle that is made obvious by the prominent spine, hips, pelvis, and tail head.

How old is the paint? Older horses sometimes have a hard time processing their feeds as well as younger horses. A probiotic can't really hurt and may help quite a bit.
 
#40 ·
Free choice hay basically means that you put hay out and they have access to it 24/7/365. Whether they have grass sometimes doesn't matter as regular yard grass may not have the nutrition that they need. Plus, even though your pasture looks green, there really isn't much there for them to eat and sustain on.

This is what I would do if it were my horses. Step 1, ditch the sweet feed or any sort of processed feed (some are better than others, but I still don't like feeding any sort of molasses to my horses and most processed feeds have it). If they need a "hard" feed, go with something like hay pellets. I can get a 50# bag of alfalfa pellets at my feed store for about $12 and 8-10 pounds of that a day is a great addition to their hay for harder keepers.

Step 2, have your vet run a fecal if you haven't already to see if there is any sort of worm load there at all. As others have mentioned, there are many worms that are immune to some of the more commonly used wormers.

Step 3, have their teeth checked if you haven't already.

While the dun horse is much better than the paint, he's still a bit on the thin side IMHO. Not so much that he needs more fat, but he's lacking in muscle, specifically along his topline. The paint, I'm sorry to say, is in what I would consider pretty poor condition. Severely lacking muscle that is made obvious by the prominent spine, hips, pelvis, and tail head.

How old is the paint? Older horses sometimes have a hard time processing their feeds as well as younger horses. A probiotic can't really hurt and may help quite a bit.
the paint is about 11 yrs old and the dun is actually older than him.

will good nutrition along build muscle? I know guys have said that riding will definitely build muscle but I usually don't get to ride but maybe once a month right now.

I once I get a few areas of the other pastures cleaned up real good, plant some grass to help out and also take off of the main pasture 24/7 and switch them up to give it time to grow back good
 
#41 ·
My pasture looks like OP's. Yesterday a large round bale was set out. They still want the grass but are now going from one to the other. Any vet will tell you your horses are in good weight. We don't know what area you live in but most of us who endure minus temps during the winter prefer to see our horses a bit on the fat side but not tubby. If you have other areas fenced, why not put the horses in there? The manure will benefit the soil. If you feed hay in there, seeds will catch and grow. Too many trees or bushes-there walking on the roots will cause die-off. This summer two large bushes died from the horses using them to rub their itchy bellies.
 
#43 ·
mainly because it is temporary fencing, using some of my neighbors land is why I put them on it but it's not permanent. In the large pasture where they are all the time, it is a permanent setup. In order to move them around and let them stay in that area over night, I would have to make it more permanent
 
#42 ·
Good nutrition will absolutely help build muscle. The paint is in a condition right now that I wouldn't even consider riding it and it really concerns me that it is only 11 and still looks like that. Normally, horses I see that thin and lacking that much muscle are in their upper 20s or have more serious health issues going on.
 
#46 ·
If those are your choices...
Triple Crown 12/12.......
Equistages or Strategy are about the same.

Of course feed fed after feeding of good quality hay first and foremost....

If price is a non-issue I would do TC....
Otherwise, the least amount of molasses added in any formula {the farther into the list of ingredients the less used in the mix}....

I never fed much in Nutrena line so have to hold back a yea or nay to be fair...I just don't know the product. I also don't recognize many of the other names and or brands...
I gave "my opinion" based on the brands and feeds you listed that I have fed in the past or know someone who has and their opinion I value of that product and what I saw accomplished or not.....


jmo....
 
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