What's your view on training young Thoroughbreds for racing? - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 50 Old 04-08-2009, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by xilikeggs0 View Post
It's like buying a puppy from a pet store to 'save' it. Yes, you're helping that 1 puppy, but you're also encouraging the puppy mills to breed even more dogs.
so we should let them die? if you are going to say not to do something then tell me your alternative plan please ...

i have two amazing mares and am so blessed that i got them- and beleive me i didn't pay much for them- probably enough to pay for the feed they had eaten for 2 or 3 months... There is no way that they could go buy another tb to race with this money.

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post #42 of 50 Old 04-08-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by xilikeggs0 View Post
I think I remember reading in HI that all horses born during or after 2007 must be N/N to be registered. Can anyone confirm this?
I can disprove it, sadly. A quick Google search found me multiple 2008 AQHA registered N/H Fillies and Colts =/ Bummer.

Originally Posted by xilikeeggs0
It's like buying a puppy from a pet store to 'save' it. Yes, you're helping that 1 puppy, but you're also encouraging the puppy mills to breed even more dogs.
It may seem similar to your analogy, but it really isnt =/ When you buy a puppy from the Pet Store, you're still paying full price. And as kchfuller said, they will practically give away dead-beat race horses. I owned a Thoroughbred that never made it to the track as he was pulled from training because of a cartiledge issue. He was purchased for $150,000.00 and then trained for a solid year (don't know how much that costs) not to mention, fed, groomed, etc... he was sold to a horse trader for $50.00 where he was starved half to death. I won't go into the rest of his sad story... as it doesn't have a happy ending. But my point being that as kchfuller said, $50.00 won't buy another race horse. $50.00 buys the owner lunch at a fancy restaurant. Its too miniscule of an amount to even put toward a purchase of another Race Horse.

Technically, we can also point the finger at the Mills that produce Race Horse Oats. They are producing feed for Race Horses.. so they're lending to the problem D: same with Seminole Brand feed (they make a special blend for track horses) and so on and so fourth. If they stopped making that feed then the horses would have to eat feed from Tractor Supply, which won't be sufficient to make them run right. I can also blame farriers. If they didn't think to make aluminum shoes some of these horses would fatigue easier (since the other shoes are iron and heavier) and they wouldnt strain themselves when they run. I also blame the vets for giving these horses their vaccinations and coggins tests. If they didn't, the horses wouldnt be allowed to trailer anymore, therefore never end up on the track.

Of course, i'm being silly/stupid/exaggerating when im saying all this that i wrote above. =) But i think what I wrote sounds just as silly as saying that rescues are lending to the problem. Now, if a rescue is paying $20,000.00 for a horse... e.e;; but i don't think thats what we were talking about =)

Anywhoo.. i hope that all makes sense =)

-Skippy! The Wonder Horse!
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post #43 of 50 Old 04-08-2009, 06:08 PM
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Makes a lot of sense, skippy! And you're absolutely right. Some trainers/owners can make MORE money shipping a horse off to slaughter then they can selling it to a new owner. It's also faster and more convienient... Probably why it used to happen (and still does!) a LOT.

What was that about them caring about their horses?? I'm pretty sure when you ship the slow ones off to the kill buyers and get money for it, it's a business, and not in the best interest of the horse.

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post #44 of 50 Old 04-09-2009, 07:53 PM
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That's one of the biggest reasons I have issues with the racing industry. Their training starts when they're 12 months old and they're on the track by the time they're two. That's why we have so many breakdowns. Two and three-year-olds aren't even done growing, much less fit to carry a rider. They're babies that are expected to perform like professional athletes. Why not race them all at six? They'd still be on equal terms and the death rate would definitely decrease.

Even OTTB's have problems from their days on the track. Early lameness and joint problems are common. A lot of them are mentally fried because they're kept in stalls for hours on end and are only out when they're on the track. The drugs don't help, either. Anabolic steroids are legal. The thing that really makes me mad is that every time a breakdown gets publicized, the people involved dismiss it as a "freak accident" or an "unexplained tragedy". Eight Belles' owner said that nobody knew why she broke down. I can tell you why she broke down. She was raced before she was fit and mature. Same goes with Ruffian and Barbaro. I'm scared to death for Nicanor. Getting hurt on the first stride out in his maiden race was a huge red flag to me. But nobody else seems the least bit concerned.

Most deaths don't even reach the media. You don't hear about the ones that are swept under the rug. What does that tell you about the integrity of the racing business?
Nothing good comes out of racing two-year-olds. It does the horses no good whatsoever. It wouldn't kill their greedy owners to wait until they're actually fully developed to start training them.

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post #45 of 50 Old 04-09-2009, 09:08 PM
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See, I blame Eight Bells and Big Brown's injuries on poor breeding.
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post #46 of 50 Old 04-09-2009, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove View Post
See, I blame Eight Bells and Big Brown's injuries on poor breeding.
A friend of mine (who owns and breeds racehorses very selectively) said that you can breed the soundness out of a breed a lot quicker than you can breed it back in....so true.

In addition, age is not as much the factor as the conditioning - or lack thereof. There have been tons of studies about this and horses conditioned over varying terrain of varying angles and grades will be stronger bone and connective tissue wise than one that is not. Including if you start two horses at 18 mos and one only runs on a groomed track and the other over typical "countryside" type terrain, the latter will be sound longer than the former WITH the exception of breeding....

What I mean by that is two identical horses one with bloodlines that have soundness issues and one that does not, there will be a difference. However, on track conditions, it will take multiple horses before the horse breaks down in extreme and catastrophic circumstances. By taking a horse with those same genetic soundness issues over varying terrain (following a proper load-building workout plan that takes into consideration bone and connective tissue takes longer to condition and build strength in than muscle), any unsoundnesses will likely be brought out in the way of initially mild lamenesses. This enables them to be diagnosed, and the opportunity to identify the horse as not fit for racing, and focus them on a different career.

The reality is, however, that outside of a few well run farms in the UK and Ireland where the focus is on creating true equine athletes - that if not sound for flats, will do other equine events - and an even fewer number of trainers in the US - that the vast majority of people want to see a return on their investment much sooner. Point being, why run on varying terrain to slowly build the load capacity of the joints and stay apparatus when you can breeze on a groomed track and get the horses in races sooner? Also what owner wants to hear that not only will it take longer to condition their horse, but that they tried them on varying terrain and the horse was unsound and shouldn't be raced? What "average" owner will understand WHY and HOW you run a horse to condition load bearing of stay apparatus? What does stay apparatus have to do with winning races anyway? See what I'm getting at?

Even as a three year old race, the Triple Crown would be okay (still older is better, I agree) IF the horses were trained properly over varying terrain to build the proper durability. In reality, however, they are not.

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post #47 of 50 Old 04-20-2009, 12:23 AM
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I think they should wait till their kneecaps actually CLOSE THEIR PLATES>
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post #48 of 50 Old 04-20-2009, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kchfuller View Post
remember to keep this friendly and not use lots of bold and caps :)
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post #49 of 50 Old 04-28-2009, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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I said...no fighting!
Obviously everyone sees it differently. Lets simply accept that no one thinks exactly alike and we all will disagree at times...but not now!

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post #50 of 50 Old 04-28-2009, 06:51 PM
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Yes, training so early is a factor. But it is not,in my opinion, the only or largest factor. Breeding, training (methods, conditioning, etc), mental soundness, etc all contribute to race horse breakdown. While racehorses are very pampered while they are winning, racehorses are disposable. The ones that do win, as I believe I stated, are bred because they won regardless of any conformational or other faults. Speed is what wins, so speed is what is bred for. As a result, the horses are getting the short end of the stick.

I don't have a problem with racing. I think though, like many equestrian sports, it needs to make some changes.
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