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Who doesn't clean stalls so manure piles up then feeds on the manure to prevent colic

19K views 95 replies 34 participants last post by  Honeysuga 
#1 ·
This is an ethical issues I just lived through; I could use some support.

Who doesn't clean stalls so manure piles up then feeds on the manure to prevent colic?

I recently removed my horses from an ranch who didn't ever clean stalls so the manure piled up to prevent the horses from eating sand and
to reduce colic. Hmm?

I'm thinking gross; Lazy people!

However, one of their horses died of impact colic. Their excuse was weather.
I'm thinks to lazy to check on a horse they know was at risk.

I witnessed them not feeding on the manure piles.

Do other people feed on manure piles? I would never!
I was paying for full board.

Does the signing of a boarding contract
mean they can commet false businss bractices?

...I found my horses without water weekly.
...I may horse was hurt almost every two weeks.
...I had to clean my own stalls.
...I have photos; what else can I do?
 

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#2 ·
That is so unhealthy... Very lazy IMO. If they're that worried about horses getting sand colic, just use straw bedding over the rubber mats.

It's only false business practices if in the signed contract it states that they are to clean the stalls daily or every two days etc.
As for the water, again, they're only liable if it's in the contract that they refill and clean water troughs daily.

Glad you were able to get your horse out of there! I would be putting the word out to people I know to stay clear of that place.
Also, good on you for taking photos of this. Never know if you may need some evidence.
 
#4 ·
Who doesn't clean manure then feeds on it?

Thanks for your support!

That is so unhealthy... Very lazy IMO. If they're that worried about horses getting sand colic, just use straw bedding over the rubber mats.

It's only false business practices if in the signed contract it states that they are to clean the stalls daily or every two days etc.
As for the water, again, they're only liable if it's in the contract that they refill and clean water troughs daily.

Glad you were able to get your horse out of there! I would be putting the word out to people I know to stay clear of that place.
Also, good on you for taking photos of this. Never know if you may need some evidence.
 
#5 ·
What you were saying did not make sense to me until I saw the photos. I could not figure out how anyone would say that leaving manure would help prevent colic. Now I at least get what they are saying. The stalls (not what I would call a stall, since there are not roofs but each to their own) have loose sand flooring so they are saying a layer of manure will make a base that is not sand.
As gross as it sounds it does make sense. Manure is just organic matter.

Lack of water shown would only get my panties bunched if I knew more about it. How long had it been empty, etc?

When I go out to feed and clean in the AM my pony has 1/4 bucket of water left. 10 minutes later, by the time she is done with her grain and I turn her out her bucket is empty.


Good job removing your horse from a situation where the practices were not what you agreed were appropriate for your horse.
 
#6 ·
Wow and just when I thought I'd heard almost everything, this crops up.

For starters, that is NOT a horse corral - it's barely big enough for a big dog --- sorry to the BO's and anyone that thinks that tiny space is an acceptable place to keep a horse:-(

Too bad they can't get shut down but that probably won't happen. At least you got your horse out of there -----------------why I hate boarding situations.

All they're interesed in is the almighty dollar and could care less about the horses folks have entrusted their care to:-x
 
#66 ·
I must have lucked out then. My old barn had similar issues no water etc but my new barn is awesome and they are not in it for the money. They are very choosey about who boards there and it it limited to 5 horses. Hunters stall and paddock are cleaned daily, they have automatic waterers in stalls and fields. Waterers are cleaned weekly. They are always watching out for our horses. Not all boarding situations are the same.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Sorry maybe it's just me but the only thing I don't agree with the injuries.

As for the manure I didn't see a whole lot. It didn't look that bad to me.
And for water my horse liked to dump the buckets over then she just puts them back upright. I've watched her do that a couple times until I tied the bucket to the fence. Those buckets are also still wet so she couldn't have been without water for to long.

What kinds of injuries did she get?
 
#9 ·
Now, I have been told that you can feed a horse fresh manure to restore a healthy bacteria balance in the intestines after a bad colic, etc....but letting it build up so it's blocking the sandy floor is crap, quite literally. Was it in the contract for them to clean the stalls? If I were paying for full board I would expect a picking at least every other day, every day if my horse were stalled the majority of the time, but that is something you have to discuss with the BO. I actually moved my horse when they stopped taking Jacks blanket off in the mornings(it had been agreed upon), they weren't turning him out at all, and I found him without water twice.
 
#10 ·
It's a good thing you left if you didn't agree with it.

How many hours are the horses in these "stalls" daily?

The bigger issue to me is that the "stall" has no roof, and walls that provide no protection. I don't understand the point of that. It's not a shelter, so there's no reason to bring the horse into it, unless it's just to feed and turn right back out.
 
#34 ·
Who doesn't clean stalls allowing manure to build up to feed on to prevent colic.

Horses board at this ranch; 1) have no shelter from the deser sun ever; 2) stand in the stall all day; 3) are not turned out unless requested by boarder; 4) feed only alfalfa and water/ no salt blocks!
IS IT ILLEGAL TO HAVE NOT COVER/SHELTER?
 
#13 ·
Actually those "pens" are pretty clean IMHO. I kept my horse in one barn for several days (I moved her as soon as I found another place withing my distance and price range), the stall had 2+ feet(!) of old manure piled up. It took me 3 hours and like 7 barrels out to clean may be 1 foot of that 10x10 stall, AND the rest of manure was so compressed I couldn't dig it out. :twisted:

However absence of water (even if there are wet spots) is a big warning sign about the facility. Personally I'd move my horse right on spot 2nd time I'd find her out without any water.
 
#14 ·
Full Board? I hope when you say you were paying full board, it was a super cheap full board.

Full board in my opinion means a safe enclosed stall (with a ROOF), cleaning, feeding, and fresh water at all times. Not to mention if I'm paying enough for it, daily turn out where a horse can move for than a few feet at a time. Gracious.

Sounds like you made a VERY VERY good decision to move.
 
#15 ·
I do not understand the whole make shift "stall" outside with no shelter...is it just for feeding or is this where your horse was kept.
The stalls are not that dirty my horses can come and go in their stalls all day and their stalls look like that after a few hours...And my horses also love to pee and poo on their hay..
And being as the water bucket is kind of small the horse could have drank it all.
But it probably was best that you moved
 
#16 ·
I'm not sure where many of you live, but in the southwestern part of the U.S., 'stalls' like these are not unusual.

In fact, there are places that have rows upon rows of pipe panels set up, and these are considered horse stalls, for which owners pay full board prices.

Not everything goes by the east coast standard of a 3 sided, roofed building with a door, to describe a stall.

In places where there's minimal rainfall and the climate is temperate to desert, there's no need to have a solid wood barn.

Of course, their hay prices will give you apoplexy, since it has to be trucked in from other states.
 
#17 ·
Those pens are anything but clean.........IMO if they are not picked every 24 hours and picked completely clean ......then they are not clean enough for my horses or my boarders horses.

Feeding on manure can be just as bad as feeding on sand. Manure is a breeding ground for worms.......maybe their horse died of impaction colic due to an over abundance of worms?

I would be using big tubs tied to the pipe to feed out of.

I personally never feed of the ground.......only feed in stalls.

Super Nova
 
#24 ·
Those pens are anything but clean.........IMO if they are not picked every 24 hours and picked completely clean ......then they are not clean enough for my horses or my boarders horses.
Nova, it very much depends on horse. If you walk into my qh's stall after one night (9 pm - 6 am) on those rainy days I put them in, her stall is nothing but a huge pile of manure, pee, and shavings all mixed up together in one nasty looking, dark brown "pillow" on floor (almost all shavings go into waste). Plus hay spread all over the top of it, and qh itself with manure patches over her (very nice when clean) coat.
 
#18 ·
Super Nova, you NEVER give your horses hay in turnout? That's certainly feeding off the ground, you know.

My horses get fed off the ground quite a bit. Hasn't made them drop over from sand colic, or stuffed them full of worms. If you have a good handle on your deworming program, there's no reason to think your animals are going to die from worm overload just from being fed off the ground.
 
#70 ·
Super Nova, you NEVER give your horses hay in turnout? That's certainly feeding off the ground, you know.

My horses get fed off the ground quite a bit. Hasn't made them drop over from sand colic, or stuffed them full of worms. If you have a good handle on your deworming program, there's no reason to think your animals are going to die from worm overload just from being fed off the ground.
No I do not feed in turnout......my horses have paddocks attached to their stalls which they have access to 24/7 ......they are feed in their stalls 4 times a day in the winter.....in the summer they have turn out on pasture and recieve one feeding at 11:00 pm at night in their stalls

Pictures of stall paddock area.



Pastures





Super Nova
 
#19 ·
I have seen those types of 'stalls' out west. To me, those look pretty good. I don't like horses not having access to water at all times but...it does look like those horses did have water in the recent past.

Some people are just a bit too hard on their BO's. I understand that board is exceedingly expensive but so is keeping horses. You undoubtedly get what you pay for. If you don't, move on.

OP, I don't think you have much of an abuse case here. I think the stalls look passable at worst and while the water situation is troubling, there is evidence that there was water there at one time. As far as your horse getting hurt every two weeks, that just happens some times. I don't see anything about those corrals that looks terribly unsafe. You provided your own solution. You left. If you were that terrible disgruntled, you should have spoke up before moving your horses.
 
#20 ·
Super Nova,
My horses eat their hay in their fields as well and they are just fine. although we have grass.. its not just dirt.
even if their stalls had been cleaned they could have pooped all in them in a matter of hours.

Speed racer,
I honestly have never seen stalls like that, if it is humid/hot don't they need at least some shelter to provide shade?!? I wouldn't want to pay to keep my horse in a small area out in the hot sun but thats just my opinion.
 
#72 · (Edited)
Well I have had to deal with sand colic due to my horse being boarded at a place where she was feed off the ground and grazing grass that was barely 1/4" long........I also helped someone with a horse that almost died of sand colic from feeding off the ground.....whether your horse gets sand colic from being fed off the ground will depend one on the type of sand and secondly how well your horse cleans up his hay.

Super Nova
 
#21 ·
Buck, land is at a premium out west, and you'd be surprised what passes for livestock acreage and horse shelter out there.

I agree; it doesn't provide shelter, but then, it's not meant to. It's only meant to contain the animals.

Turnout usually consists of a dirt lot, or if the horses are lucky, an area 1/2 acre in size or maybe a little larger.

Horse keeping in CA, TX, and AZ is nothing like how it's done in other parts of the country.
 
#32 ·
Horse keeping in CA, TX, and AZ is nothing like how it's done in other parts of the country.
You're tellin me!!!! So last year when I was in AZ, everyonce in a while I would see this little black horse...she would have tack on, so I thought, oh she got rid of her rider...I would try to catch her up but she would take off. Then one day I saw her out near another neighbor horse's paddock...she was there the entire day...I had decided if the owners didn't come and get her before nightfall I would try and catch her up, and put her in our extra pen. Nightfall came, and she was still out there, so I grabbed a bucket of feed and hoped for the best. Caught her, and put her up...only to be told later by some of the other folks who lived at the school that owners would just let their horses run in the winter...nice huh?
 
#26 ·
Lol! From my experience many of them are pigs. And I've seen once the whole WALL pooped all over starting at the level of my head (and I'm 5'9"!) and down (in the barn I visited for the clinic). Actually the BO put my qh in that stall, and I couldn't figure out HOW she (14'3 hh) could manage to poop so high. I was told later it was there even before us.... :) :) :)
 
#27 ·
Feeding off the ground is the healthiest way for horses to eat - it's what they were built to do!

Feeding off manure, not so much - Agreed, worms would be my concern.

Those yards (Not stalls where I live, those are yards) also don't look too bad. We use yards similar to that for overnight stays at most shows we go to and that's what mine look like after 12 hours!
 
#28 ·
I really do not see much wrong at all. Like was said, manure is just organic plant matter, and if the deworming program is up to snuff there isnt really much to worry about. If the manure id dried(as I suspect in the arid climate it takes only a short period of time for it to turn to poop bricks) and raked over the sand it really isnt that bad at all IMO. It isnt like people poop filled with fats and chemicals and stuff, just undigested plant fibers. not saying I bed with it, but in that situaton it really does not look harmful.

Those corrals do not look bad to me at all and as has been said, out west very common, called "mare motels" sometimes. They are lagre enough for the horse to move around during the day while not being turned out.

The water buckets in question look like they were just emptied. Maybe it is just before watering rounds? Maybe the horses in question play in thier water buckets and splased most of it out and drank the rest?

I really do not see anything to get in a tizzy over. Are you just assuming all that you said or did you actually take the time to speak to the facility management about the situations you posted to find out reasons?

Sounds to me like you did not.
 
#29 ·
Feeding on manure; allows manure to build a soft bed to feed horse on to help prevent colic? The boarding contract full board for cleaning stalls daily, water and feed twice daily and turn out; I found allot not done weekly. Horses were not fed on time was recycling their own manure. No one ever came to pick up manure. Nota! I was concerned about colic; if not feed on time or regularly an horse can become an agressive eater. One of their horse's died a couple of weeks ago from impaction colic. no water warmer; not checked on to see if water was being drank when weather changed; not meds for 2 days before death!
 
#31 ·
Here's a picture of one of the places I have boarded at/worked in Montana:


You can see rows and rows of those types of 'stalls' they're really common and not make-shift at all. The hill and other surroundings give them a decent wind break and they're perfectly acceptable to me. It also doesn't look small. There is plenty of room there to move around and lay down.

The pictures looked like a warm climate maybe new mexico, arizona, or something like that. The water who knows. I'm not going to judge off those pictures.

I pictured like 2 feet of manure or something but I don't see that picture as being very bad. I dont think you have a leg to stand on for any sort of abuse case.

As far as the stall being not picked out or injuries, I guess that's why it's so important to read your contract and ask questions before you sign. Better luck at your next place.
 
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